Thoughts in the Wake of Clippers-Lakers
It's strange. As I've gotten more into the 'business' of having a blog (such as it is), I sometimes lose sight of why I have a blog in the first place. Here I am, closing in on 2 AM after the biggest Clipper win since ... since ... what? Since 2006 playoffs versus Denver? You know, that's not really an exaggeration. Anyway, I'm thinking, "I need to write something" but then I realize that tomorrow is Sunday, and blog traffic is low on Sunday, and if I write something, relatively few people are going to read it, so I should wait. But hold on, Monday's a holiday, not to mention that there's another game Monday. Besides - did I start a Clippers blog to generate page views? Absolutely not. I mean, I'm gratified that there's an audience out there, and I'll take the page views, but I started this blog to write what I want to write about the Clippers, so that's what I'm going to do, dammit.
I feel a little like Ron Burgundy. "I just wanted to shout it from on top of a mountain. But I didn't have a mountain. I had a newsroom and a camera." Well, I want to shout about the Clippers from a mountain, but I don't have a mountain, nor a newsroom and a camera; I have a blog.
The Clippers won a big game tonight, that goes without saying. And they really looked downright comfortable doing so. Yes, the Lakers got the lead down to three late in the third, but even as that happened, I really wasn't particularly worried. Or perhaps I should word that differently. I certainly saw the distinct possibility that the Clippers might lose the game - but it was just so painfully obvious that they were the better team that I didn't care that much.
Take for example the Darius Morris half court shot at the end of the first quarter. Of course I had visions of Shannon Brown making a similar shot at the end of the third quarter last year, of the Clippers slowly losing a lead and succumbing at the buzzer by a single point. And I'm sure I wasn't the only Citizen of Clips Nation thinking about that game. But whereas last year that win over the Lakers would have meant so much, because the rest of the season was a loss, this year it's no big deal to beat them. Being better than the Lakers (and lots of other NBA teams, I should add) is more important than beating the Lakers. And flukey wins based on half court heaves and superhuman efforts from one player aren't particularly troublesome when you have bigger fish to fry.
Kobe Bryant is an amazing scorer, but when he plays like he did in the third period tonight, it's fool's gold for the Lakers. Even if he carries them on his back to victory in a single game, as he might have tonight, it's simply not sustainable in the long term. Andrew Bynum is an absolute monster of an NBA center - what purpose does it serve the Lakers for Kobe to reduce him to a glorified Kwame Brown? If what we saw tonight is what the Lakers are going to be this season, they're done. Stick a fork in them. They'll win plenty of games, but they'll never win another championship that way.
The Clippers were better - just plain better. Now, the Lakers have had a grueling opening to the season, while the pace for the Clippers has been much more leisurely, and maybe the Clippers were fresher tonight. But the flaws I saw in the Lakers had nothing to do with tired legs. Kobe shot 50% on completely absurd shot selection - how much better could he possibly have been if he'd been 'fresher'? Bynum and Gasol were fine when they got the ball - they just didn't get the ball. (It is worth noting that on one fourth quarter turnover, Gasol was understandably taken completely unawares when Kobe actually attempted a pass - it's not surprising that Gasol and Bynum have less of an impact, even on the rare occasions that the get the ball, if they're constantly being ignored).
Much will be made of the Clippers outrebounding the Lakers tonight, considering that the Lakers were leading the league in rebounding while the Clippers were last coming into the game. But more than anything else, it just feels to me like the Clippers poor rebounding start was an artifact of a small sample size. The Clippers have empirically been a poor rebounding team so far, there's no denying that. But are they intrinsically a poor rebounding team? They certainly shouldn't be. Not with Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan and Reggie Evans getting most if not all of the minutes up front. Evans of course has only been playing for four games now, during which the Clippers have outrebounded their opponents twice. So I think we're just getting back to normal on that front.
The Clippers, despite shooting poorly from the perimeter and getting next to nothing from a bench missing Mo Williams, nonetheless led the game wire-to-wire. In fact, the Lakers never even had a possession with the potential to tie the game in the second half, and didn't have a possession to take a lead after 4-2. That was with Caron Butler and Randy Foye each shooting 2 for 10 on mostly wide open jumpers (though Foye's two makes were both big). The Clippers bench only scored 11 total, with 10 of those coming from Foye, and shot just 2 for 16 as a group. The good news on that front is that Evans at least is making major contributions without scoring, and that as weak as the Clipper bench is, it's still far superior to the Lakers' bench - and Clippers fans know all too well that Mo Williams > Steve Blake.
After watching this game, it is simply clear to me that the Clippers are now better than the Lakers, and that's a big hurdle for Clips Nation. Now, I'll place a big caveat on that statement. Provided that the Lakers continue to play this way, marginalizing and almost ignoring perhaps the best tandem of bigs in the entire league, the Clippers are the better team. I really can't quite get over the fact that the Lakers have probably the second best "Big Three" in the league, and two of them didn't get the ball in the second half. To borrow another Ferrellism, it's mind bottling.
The Clippers on the other hand have a first level NBA star, fully capable of taking over games, a player currently redefining the power forward position, a former Finals MVP, and a cast of other guys, all of whom have a role on the team. Chris Paul gets the best out of his teammates - he doesn't marginalize them.
The Clippers faced their first challenge of the season this week and passed, winning two of three games against Portland, Miami and the Lakers. Yes, the two wins were at home, but they were wins. And importantly, there is a noticeable improvement in team chemistry and especially team defense in the last week. This team is clearly better than the one that lost to San Antonio and Chicago, and not just because Reggie Evans is playing.
The team is now tied for the second best record in the Western Conference based on winning percentage, which feels about right - and while it is true that the leisurely pace thus far has helped them, it's also true that the Clippers have played a pretty top heavy schedule so far. Losses at San Antonio and Portland and home to Chicago are nothing to be ashamed of.
So bring on the rest of the season now. Because I love Veronica Corningston.
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Can we get this first rubbish out of here please. It only seem to arrive when Chris Paul did.
It’s not IGN.
Bingo! Oh me oh my!
It's great to enjoy and share Steve's giddy enthusiasm after 2 am
Great game. I just have the same sinking feeling I used to get when EJ went down after seeing CP3 leave with the hamstring strain. Those can be very tricky and I hope it does not keep him out long.
"Great Balls Of Fire, Reggie's Back!"
can you re-open the raods to Poetland??
Pleasee? I would like to get out after you trapped me in here.
It’s nice and all, but John R won’t shut up
I wish you could take off your blindfold to read closed until the February 16th
In the meantime please take the lotion out of the basket.
"Great Balls Of Fire, Reggie's Back!"
All I want out of this team that they aren't giving now
Is better roatation from VDN. And I don’t mean not playing cook or gomes, that’s unrealistic at this point(no replacement for Gomes/VDN obviously likes Cook). I mean making smarter substitutions. When he puts Mo in for Billups, put Gomes in for Caron shortly after. Then, later, put Billups back for CP3. So now you have Billups/Mo/Gomes. When you put Foye in for either Billups/Mo, aslo put Butler back in for Gomes. This was Gomes/Foye don’t play together. Also, I hate seeing lineups with Gomes AND two of the non-scoring bigs(cook/evans/jordan), It places too much pressure on the guards.
Honestly, while I am convinced that Cook is terrible, I understand where Vinny is using him. Give him 4-6 minutes in the 2nd quarter and see what he can do. If Cook gets hot, he can really contribute. The problem this season is that he started off well in Oakland, and has shot woefully since. Tonight, it was clear, after 2 clanked threes and a ugly reverse attempt, that he was not going to do anything positive.
Hopefully, he can settle into this role and have a few good games this season. If he helps us put away bad teams early, It means rest for Blake. If he gives us 10 points against a good team, it could be the difference. So while I would like to replace him at this point (Sheed, anyone?), I can live with screaming at him for only a few minutes a night.
this
all of it, except maybe the Sheed part.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
The lakers could probably beat bad teams with their style of play, but it's not going to work against good teams.
Our team shares the ball, the lakers were the polar opposite. I almost forgot that Pau and Bynum were on the court and when they got a pass from Kobe it almost took them by surprise.
+1
Lost in all the hoopla about the Lakers looking better than expected to start the season is the fact that they havent played that many good teams. Outside of their home win against Denver (which by the way was less impressive as it went down to the wire), most of their wins are home games against subpar or depleted teams. Not impressed by Lakers.
by cassellmania on Jan 15, 2012 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
when Kobe has to explode for 40+ points to hold off these teams
you know something is not right.
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 15, 2012 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
does it matter?
Mike Brown basically has deffered control over the offence to Kobe. The Lakers will live by the Kobe or die by the Kobe.
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 15, 2012 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
sky rockets in flight!!!!!!
At least I'm also a Redskins fan... oh wait. My sports life sucks.
by Clipper T on Jan 15, 2012 2:20 AM PST via iPhone app reply actions
I love this group of guys.
Having 5 true quality starters is something that is rare. Having two of them be perennial all-stars is unbelievable. It was great to see us go out there and win. Clipper Nation was controlling the crowd. There were some cheers and some chants for the Lakers, but CNation drowned them out for the most part.
I like the way that our schedule has been so far. There haven’t been too many gimmes. So, we’ve had to test our strength against some of the best in the league, teams that have always had our number and we’ve won 2/3’s of those games so far.
The pace of the schedule has allowed the guys to put in work at practice and become more familiar with each other. We’ll have to make up for it later, but we’ll be more prepared. Plus, there will be some easier opponents coming up. Paul and Mo just need to heal up quick, because I want to see us have some laughers like Houston where we can rest our starters and play the extended bench.
Proud member of Club FTR
Bynum
There was one play where DJ deflected a pass to Bynum. Afterward, they stopped going to him as much. DJ is okay against Bynum, Evans on the other hand, is no match for him. Had Bynum gone off, Jones may have made an appearance. Overall as a team,
the Clips hustled for every lose ball and played with more intensity than the Lakers.
Bottom line, Clips offense responded to every run the Lakers had. The best Defense is a good Offense.
PS: Steve, i think correct grammar is “a lot” vs “lots”.
"After the first six minutes I was heavily winded"-Andrew Bynum
Nope, that's correct *punctuation*
I mean, if we’re nitpicking, that has nothing to do with grammar
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Capitalization counts as punctuation?
I’ve never thought about classifying a capitalization error. But yeah, that makes sense now that I think about it.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Professional word nerd at your service
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
a lot vs. lots
As far as I know, both are colloquial, but neither is preferred. In formal writing, something along the lines of “a great many” or simply “many” would be better, but I am unaware of any preference for “a lot” over “lots” in colloquial writing.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 15, 2012 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
As long as "alot" never makes an appearance, I'm happy.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
“A lot” and “lots” are both informal expressions. They both mean “a great many,” and neither is considered preferable. “A lot” can also be used as an adverb (Chris Paul is a lot better than I dared hope).
Erik O is also correct: don’t use “alot.”
As Clipper fans we have to occasionally remember that the outside world, the real world, believes that we’re all insane. They don’t understand us at all. What we do doesn’t make any rational sense to them. - citizen zhiv
you know things are going good when del taco employees are talking about the clips. - ImranQ
lol
As Clipper fans we have to occasionally remember that the outside world, the real world, believes that we’re all insane. They don’t understand us at all. What we do doesn’t make any rational sense to them. - citizen zhiv
you know things are going good when del taco employees are talking about the clips. - ImranQ
you can't survive when you win this easily
not only did we win wire-to-wire, but the Lakers were never even one possession away from tying!
+1
and j.d.adande is an ass. still calls Clips LA’s other team in his headline. That dude needs to get over it. Clips can play, not sure why he is such a Lakers homer.
Because the Clippers are still LA's other team
LA is dominated by Laker fans, not Clipper fans. We’re still the other team, a good other team, even possibly better than THE team, but we’re not LA’s favorite team yet.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
You obviously wasn't at Staples last night.
Every time the Laker fans started the MVP chants it followed by the loudest
boos ever and man did that feel awesome. People are changing the way
they feel about the Clippers and winning is putting a stamp mark on it. I’m not
saying this is a Clipper town but you can surely feel all the bandwagoners
hoping on board.
Clips Nation was in the house!
and kobe got booed! When was the last time Kobe got booed at Staples?
So you're trying to tell me that
a game at home which makes us somewhat louder than then opposition means that it’s now becoming THE Los Angeles team? News flash, as much bandwagon fans as we get, this season probably won’t give us as much fans as the Lakers. We’re still the ugly stepsister, but finally we got plastic surgery. Just because perceptions are changing that we are finally winning does mean that we will win a bigger fan base than the Lakers- yet or if at all. Non basketball fans know that the Los Angeles team is Lakers. They might not even have heard of the Clippers. That should be enough to know that Laker fans dominate the Los Angeles area.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
This is true
I was at the game in section 315. There were TONS of Laker fans around me, and they chanted a lot.
Most surprsing play of the game was Brian Cook’s block. I had to keep telling myself “That was Brian Cook!”
"Fact One: Races are won or lost in key moments. Fact Two: Success in the sport is, above all else, about enduring suffering." - Chris MacCormack
bear in mind...
In most cases, and probably at ESPN, editors write headlines, not authors. If you like what Adande wrote, but don’t like the headline, then I would certainly not blame him.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 15, 2012 11:02 AM PST up reply actions
JA Adande has actually been pretty good about giving the clippers credit
I remember him talking before the season on Around the Horn about how the clippers could possibly be the better team and everyone heckled him about it the rest of the show.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
by bestclipfan on Jan 15, 2012 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
His tweets are kinda pro-Laker
But his articles are usually pretty good about being objective.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
I've heard adante speak highly of the clips on the jim rome show.
brijo1
by ThaFoX on Jan 15, 2012 1:33 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
I think they mean that in a good way
The Lakers got an efficient 42 from Kobe, they got a ton of boards from Bynum, the typical double-double from Pau, and the Clips still won. And that was without Mo Williams! With Randy Foye getting enough minutes to go 2-11, and Butler having an uncharacteristically bad night (I assume he was tired from shutting down Kobe in the first half), it’s not like the Clips even had to play perfect to win it.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Tonight made it clear
that the Lakers have no chance of winning a championship if they don’t make Bynum their main focal point. Dude is a punk but he’s awfully talented and he makes even DJ look tiny. Kobe can make some crazy shots but its not going to be enough over the long haul to win a 7 game series like that.
Also the Clips are one good swing player away from being a truly elite team. The production (or lack of it rather) from Gomes and Foye is troublesome (as well as what they can do on defense). Clips definitely need to add JR Smith (character issues be damn) and they have a good 8 man rotation (with Mo and Evans) that you need in the playoffs.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
You forget Mo didn't play
Focus on what you have. Let them grow together. In a month reevaluate.
Relax and enjoy.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
It's still good to have a legit
backup SG. We can let them grow, but adding a SG with true size could be a very big key for scoring off the bench as well as some defense that Randy Foye clearing lacks due to height.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
What does Mo have to do with it?
I know he’s a solid rotation player, so is Evans. Can’t go just 7 deep. Adding a player the caliber of JR Smith would HELP a ton.
Just look at this
http://www.82games.com/1112/1112LAC.HTM
And you’ll see how much the bench is killing the Clippers. The starting 5 is killing pretty much everyone while the bench is letting them back in the game or losing the game entirely.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 15, 2012 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
+1
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Alot of that is substitution patterns
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I agree
subbing them in is bad
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 15, 2012 7:17 PM PST up reply actions
Is it a good thing or bad thing that Gomes is invisible on the court?
I swear they are putting him in the game because the rules say you need to put 5 players on the court.
"Great Balls Of Fire, Reggie's Back!"
He is exactly the same as Metta World Peace offensively
Defensively, at least RonRon is good at swiping the ball away from anyone from guards to bigs.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Mixed
He’s much more bearable than Foye. Gomes doesn’t do much (literally and figuratively) but at least he’s self-aware enough to know he sucks so he doesn’t do the really bad things (like shoot bad shots) like Foye. Foye on the other hand must think he’s Kobe based on his shot selection.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 15, 2012 3:04 PM PST up reply actions
I agree!
Gomes is much more self-aware of his limitations, and while I think he’s more limited than Foye, the self-awareness is kind of a big deal. I was watching Foye during the shoot around and he really doesn’t make that many shots, even with no defenders. Yet he never seems deterred by all the misses!
The one good thing is that when we have our full lineup and Foye knows that he’s like the 8th scoring option, he defers more to Mo, Paul, and Billups as guards who are scoring. But when he gets his garbage minutes and is told to lead the B-team, or when he replaces Mo in the rotation, he suddenly think it’s time to be Imitation Diet Kobe… Lite.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
JR Smith would be so perfect.
I really don’t think the character issues are an issue at all. This is CP3’s team, and he runs it with a strong fist. And Chauncey has dealt with JR before.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
I'm on board for Smith
I’m not sure about his date of return. I figure the Clips will need to be in the thick of the playoff hunt, and playing well enough to have the top brass thinking “championship?”. Then the team might make the investment.
Our roster should certainly be able handle Smith’s antics, and maybe the guy has matured a little. Having a representative bad boy might even be a good thing.
I do wonder what it would cost us, and for how long. If he’d be willing to come on for a test run, that would be awesome. But what are the chances?
No doubt, the Clips are one swing man away from a playoff worthy roster. Smith would have the entire league looking over its shoulder.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Clips already have a playoff worthy roster
pretty much any team with a healthy Chris Paul is a playoff team. But if they want to beat OKC or the Heat in a 7 game playoff series they need a bench capable of playing NBA quality basketball. Outside of Mo and Evans they don’t have that off the bench (maybe Bledsoe can help). Having another rotation quality big like Pryzbilla, Kenyon Martin or Rasheed Wallace would also help.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 15, 2012 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
By playoff worthy, I mean built for playoff success
So we’re on the same page.
When the Clips had their year with Sam and Brand, did they beef up the roster before the playoffs? It’s only the last few years that I’ve watched the Clips closely, so all of this is unfamiliar territory to me. I’m curious to see how seriously the FO will take our playoff run.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
During the 05-06 season
they traded Chris Wilcox to the Sonics for Vladimir Radmanovic.
You can always make in-season moves for players. The systems (especially offense) don’t vary that much you just need to know what your personnel can and cannot do. Just remember the Lakers added Gasol mid-season, the Pistons added Rasheed, the Celtics added PJ Brown, the Mavs added Peja and Corey Brewer. You add good basketball players anytime you can, its that simple.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 15, 2012 6:59 PM PST up reply actions
Even simpler than that
By the time the trade deadline rolls around (March 15 this season) a handful of teams are considered real contenders, while at least 10 are completely out of the playoff picture. Contenders willing to spend money can pick up good players from the bad teams looking to shed salary. So many more deals will come available that are not available now.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 17, 2012 9:28 AM PST up reply actions
at first I was against JR
never been a fan of his game, but yea, the bench production has been horrible, and it’s not like Foye is any less streaky shooter than JR.
DOWN GOES THE SCOTCH
DOWN INTO MY BELLY
MMM MMM MMM
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3M2qkLh0z4
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
I got that it was from anchorman when yaggie said it Erik
I’m messing with you. God forbid somebody make a little joke around here.
Oh I know you got it haha
I just wanted to link it because it’s awesome :D
I love the part right after that… “The human torch applied for a bank loan”
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Don't pretend you're not impressed
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 15, 2012 4:20 PM PST up reply actions
this is gonna be our Town soon
Lakers will be the “other” tenants of the Staple Center!!!
by benoitcagewoodson on Jan 15, 2012 3:33 AM PST reply actions
that would take a decade of Clipper dominance with some trophies...
…and yet still likely won’t happen.
Energy * Focus * No Excuses
"For [Griffin] getting in the way of Andre Miller’s 40 yard dash?" -S. Perrin
by Takebb909 on Jan 15, 2012 3:54 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
will happen
this town is bandwagon city. everyone at the basketball courts had bulls jerseys on when the pre-shaq, nick van exel, elder campbell lakers sucked.
They need to win...
….some championships first before that happens..
Understanding of roles and improved chemistry
Are easily the most noteworthy progress that the team’s made and they help made those blatant early season flaws (defensive rotations, spacing and rebounding), well much less blatant. It’s great to see something that resembles efficient help defense as well as everybody chipping in on rebounding as if they were genuinely embarrassed by the early season stats and wanting to correct those numbers.
One element that is unfortunately shaping up to be a weakness of our team (and also well-documented) that won’t be fixed simply with improved chemistry is frontcourt depth/length. The best defensive big in our 9-man rotation remains to be the 6-11 DJ, and there isn’t a even a close 2nd. Yes the Lakers bigs were marginalized by their own offensive schemes, but on instances where plays were set up for the tandem it was clear that we did not have the personnel to slow them nor to throw them different looks. With Bledsoe returning some time in Feb and considering he def needs some burn as the spotlight clipper project, a midseason trade involving one of our backup guards is looking increasingly necessary.
and thanks for the late night entry SP!
I liked Evans as a second man in a double team
he’s all over you in a heatbeat
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
a few things..
should just make “a few things” a regular segment
-what impresses me most about cp3 that isn’t covered enough is his silky smooth jump shot.. guy might have the smoothest jump shot out of any pg in basketball, you can’t really think of his sweet spots because he seems equally dangerous from virtually any spot on the floor. going against the lakers is such a dream for him, they have no point guards tht can even remotely contain him and it’s almost comical watching him toy with their bigs on switches. this was often the case last postseason too in the hornets/lakers series. and, unlike with kobe, paul having a huge mismatch also opens things up for the entire team..
-speaking of kobe, feels like the lakers are being run by the same philosophy brown took into cleveland: play great defense and let your star decide your offense. unlike lebron’s selfless attitude, kobe very much looks like the selfish post-shaq pre-gasol ballhog, except his team is notably better. like steve said, this doesn’t result in winning postseason basketball, and beng gift-wrapped pau hides a very important fact that kobe still hasn’t truly learned how to be a team player.. even with pau he shot the lakers out of the finals the first time against boston and nearly did it again the second time.
-love having reggie evans on this team, pure hustle. what a fantastic addition. great to see everyone rebounding tonight.
-you know what’s so freaky aboutq blake? he still doesn’t really have any moves.. he has some things he goes to, but does he really have patented, full proof moves? not really, he’s still learning. tbh i don’t even really consider him a great rebounder.. but what makes him so good? because he wants it so much and is just more physically capable than virtually anyone else. once this guy really uncovers fundamentals, which cp3 will help him realize, guy will just be unstoppable.
now, im just going to wait to hear tht paul is ok.
also, that blake push on morris was a bit much but..
..those kind of stupid rooke plays remind me of when tony allen did something similar, ripped up his knee and athletically has never been the same. why would you bother doing something like that?
During the 3rd quarter I saw a dissing tweet from the Bulls Lu Al Deng
stating Kobe was trying real hard to score 40 points again tonight.
"Great Balls Of Fire, Reggie's Back!"
I don't get why the Lakers always
end up with Pau on Paul, haha, that never seemed to work out well for them in the playoffs, and now with new coaches they still allow the switch? It is always a good laugh trying to see the awkward Pau try and cover Paul. I guess paul isn’t getting around Pau, but Pau is always laying off him, and CP always seems to make that jump shot after a few crossovers on Pau.
Man! I was sitting in my comfortable armchair waiting for the game to start at 4.30 AM EU time, fighting to stay awake
I had been looking so much forward to this game like you guys, but 30 min before tipoff I simply doze off, and did not wake up before 8.30. I was really pissed on myself that I missed the game, but it could not keep my mood down for long, since it was such great news to wake up to! Now I am just eager to watch the game on leaguepass demand, but for some reason the screen just says “The Game Has Ended”, and I can’t get back to the start. Does anyone else have the same problem? I was quite afraid when I heard CP had to leave the floor at some point, and that he did not come back in. Luckily it does not sound so serious – he just has to rest and take it easy until he is a 100% again. Man these past few weeks has been surreal..
alarm clock man
"Fresh out the airport/ Fresh out the chair with the clippers/ Like Sean Livin' thinking, hmm/ I'm trying to get it like Sean get it" - Wale "Beautiful Bliss"
4.30 is gut wrenching in a weekend
I didn’t planned to see this game but woke up a 6 a.m. and couldn’t fall asleep again. So I watched the second half.
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 15, 2012 12:03 PM PST up reply actions
Is it just me, or is NBA TV being rather lame..
I can’t access the game to re-view it. It just reads as “The Game Has Ended” and I can’t rewind it…
Sigh. This is what I’m paying $120+ for…
I have the exact same problem
It seems like they haven’t make the option available to watch the “condensed game” or “full match” yet, and the only thing available at this point, is to press the games and navigate yourself. That does not explain why we aren’t able to watch our game from the very start though, but I hope they will make it work soon, because I know I can’t wait much longer :)
Ugh
AND I’m in South Korea, which adds another layer of rights issues. T_T
yessir!
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 15, 2012 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
It takes a while to "reload"
If you have league pass on Broadband, it takes several hrs for games to be reviewable. They need to archive the game.
"After the first six minutes I was heavily winded"-Andrew Bynum
Perhaps
It’s just strange I guess cause in the previous instances I was always able to access a game after it ended by just rewinding it; never had experienced a case where I couldn’t even do that. But, now that it works, life moves on.
LOL
I see what you did there.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 15, 2012 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
Meanwhile in Lakerland...
Over at the Lakers blog there’s all of the usual excuses: Lakers were tired…this game meant nothing…wait til we turn on the switch in the playoffs…talk to us when the Clippers get 16 banners. The absolute best is the massive amount of hate directed at Blake Griffin. they’re calling him one of the dirtiest players in the league because of that push he gave to Darius Morris last night. I find this particularly funny coming from Lakers fans. I mean, no Laker would ever be dirty right? Not Fisher or Bynum or Artest certainly…And definitely Kobe is squeaky clean. The other funny thing about Blake hate is the fact that all Laker fans would give their left nut to have Blake Griffin on their team. I feel that all of this Laker douchebaggery helps us. You don’t think that CP3 and Blake hear all of this nonsense? When Jimmy Kimmel spends half an hour telling Paul that he shouldn’t be a Clipper, that probably motivates CP to want to stay here and win. So keep hating away Lakers fans…make sure to boo Blake and CP3 as loudly as you can.
"wait til we turn on the switch in the playoffs"
Just like they did last year, right? Oh right SWEEEEEEP.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
"But the Lakers went to the finals 3 yrs. in a row, so fuck off, were cooler, we have sweet 16 champs".
average laker fan retort
It's typical Laker fan
dwelling on the past. We get it, you guys have a nice past, but it’s good to know that’s their only scapegoat at night.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
I think there was a pretty obvious flop last nigh
from matt barnes, but think he got charged with the block, but somehow got pushed like 15 feet by a touch to his chest by CP3. I couldn’t help but chuckle a little after all his commentary after the preseason game.
Got a unique chant from Lakers fans at the game
They would chant “Blake’s a pussy!” and really turn up the haterade. It’s true though. If Griffin ever joined the Lakers they would love him like no tomorrow. So tempermental.
"Fact One: Races are won or lost in key moments. Fact Two: Success in the sport is, above all else, about enduring suffering." - Chris MacCormack
They have not seen Blake's model girlfriend?
They should have been chanting Blake gets P*%sy!
http://beermugsports.com/hot-chicks/2012/1/12/unbelievablysabrina-maserati-is-a-clipper-lover-just-ask-bla.html
"Great Balls Of Fire, Reggie's Back!"
Love It
Could use the rhythm of the Let’s Go chants: Blake Gets P*%sy clap clap clap-clap-clap. Blake Gets P*%sy clap clap clap-clap-clap. Blake Gets P*%sy clap clap clap-clap-clap.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
I rather not degrade myself to LAL's level
we have kids in the audience. Yeah I know words like fuck and shit occasionally slip, but I don’t want to make it a habit and show kids that it’s a-okay to cuss like an obnoxious sailor. Lakers fan can have no shame and dignity, I still want my kids to show class and not burn down cars or cross freeways after we win.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
How many times did Kobe pass?
Is that statistic available? Are there any websites that would tell me? I am tempted to re-watch the 4th quarter to count how many times Kobe passed the ball. His ballhoggery was astounding.
Yeah, mind-bottling. You know, when things are so crazy it gets your thoughts all trapped, like in a bottle?
-As ineffective as our bench can be some games, I feel better about our bench after seeing the Lakers’ version in action. They have by far the worst bench of any “contender”. Mind-bottlingly bad.
-My buddy and I at the game kept wondering the same thing about Bynum/Gasol’s lack of touches. Bynum looked primed for a big game in the 1st quarter and after getting DJ into foul trouble. Surprised they didn’t go to him more to get DJ into further foul trouble. I like Gasol with the second unit and if only he got the same touches with Kobe. Truly mind-bottling.
-The victory over the Lakers was unbelievable. I’m hoarse from screaming at the game, especially after going toe-to-toe was some obnoxious Lakers fans, but now I’m worried about the three games in three nights. If CP3 can’t go, we go 1-2 and give up the forward momentum? It bottles my mind to think we’ll got 3-0 without CP3.
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
Without CP3 and Mo
yea 1-2 sounds about right. Utah looks solid now and have always been tough at home. And of course the defending champs on the end of a back to back to back won’t be easy. We better win the Nets one though or it can easily be a 0-3 trip.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 15, 2012 3:13 PM PST up reply actions
that's how I feel
W/ CP3, I expected 2-1 or 3-0, but w/o him I think we will win NJ, lose Dal, and it will be up in the air in Utah
Not all Laker fans are obnoxious
a good majority of them, but not all.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
"Seventeen Offensive Rebounds"
Interview with Kobe Bryant where he repeatedly laments last night’s 17 offensive rebounds as a big reason why they lost. Is he throwing the big guys under the bus? Isn’t it bad enough he doesn’t get the best big-man combo in the league involved in the offense?
Kobe’s a great player, but after fifteen years, he still doesn’t get it. If I’m Pau, or Bynum, I’m on the phone with my agent this morning, begging for a ticket out of LA.
Or maybe a ticket to the other LA team :)
by Ricekrispy10 on Jan 15, 2012 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
Just think about a locker room with Kobe AND Reggie in it
No one is safe from fondling…
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
I'm betting Pau is wishing
that he and Lamar were in Houston playing with Lowry right about now.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
I thought only Pau was going to Hou
while Odom would be in Orleans.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 15, 2012 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
Oops
Yeah, you’re right.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
kobe is a douche. he throws his own teammates under the bus.
it’s all about him. had he passed the ball a little and involved the bigs they would have a very good chance to win the game.
You stay classy Clipper Fans
Its nice that our team took us all to Pleasure Town with that win last night.
"Success only comes before work inside of a dictionary!"
by Clipperoo on Jan 15, 2012 10:38 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Yes!
Take me to Pleasure Town!
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 15, 2012 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
feelling giddy?
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 15, 2012 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
Great recap, Steve. Rec'd.
Thanks for not worrying about pageviews and instead sharing the joy with we happy Clips faithful who’d rather spend Sunday relishing last night’s win instead of watching a crappy AFC playoff game.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Really?
I was a little disappointed in that.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 15, 2012 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
Totally brought it full circle after the intro. Bellisimo.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Last night I realized that Randy Foye adds hardly anything to the team
He is a slightly taller, much less useful version of Mo Williams, especially since he cant run an offense at all. When Bledsoe comes back, I think he and Mo will be the two guards off the bench- or at least that is what I hope will happen.
A deal I think that could work wonders is Randy Foye straight up for Jared Jeffries (Knicks). The Knicks desperately need some scoring off the bench, and we need a big man who can defend and rebound. This trade would happen around the time Bledsoe gets back. If it doesnt seem like he is playing that well, we can always sign a FA SG like Keith Bogans or Cartier Martin or someone to make sure he stays consistent.
We lament the uselessness of Foye
but others team can use him??? It doesn’t work that way.
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 15, 2012 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
Foye plays better with bigger roles.
He isn’t getting alot of burn here and he isn’t in rythmn. When he plays 20ish minutes he is better.
Still I challenge the general idea
that we can trade our “crap” for something useful
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 15, 2012 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
I understand where you are coming from
but Foye is a dynamic offensive player. By that I mean he can create his own shot and get into the lane. On some bad teams, that is a commodity. I don’t think Foye is worth much, and he is worth next to nothing to a contending team. But a bad team struggling to score could take him on.
I think Foye will make sense to a team that has decided that this isn't the year
and want to move some players for an expiring contract and perhaps a second rounder (we got 2 in the Paul trade). But I’m guessing that it will be a few weeks until we get there.
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 15, 2012 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
I dont know
He is a pretty huge upgrade to MIke Bibby or Bill Walker off the bench. Hell, despite Landry Fields playing huge to start last season, he hasnt looked as good since the trade, and they might even start Foye over him.
He would definitely be getting about 20 minutes a game for them though.
sophomore slump
had a great first half last season, totally crashed after the Melo trade, hasn’t recovered yet. Weird
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 15, 2012 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
I feel confident that he will be fine
I would actually love to have him as a Clipper… He is a tall SG/SF and young enough to be our SG of the future. I would trade Mo and/or Foye for Fields in a heartbeat.
I would also love him
I think he would be great for us. But all I’m saying the jury is still out on him.
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 15, 2012 9:20 PM PST up reply actions
With Paul hurt and he does need some rest. I guess Billups will switch to the point and Foye will be the 2 guard.
VDN said Foye will start if CP3 and Mo are both out
I would prefer to see Billups/Butler/Gomes with Foye playing the 6th man role, and sign a swingman like Gerald Green to fill in at SG/SF
Green has been impressive in the D-league. But than again Willie Warren was tearing up the D league last season. Green is a great athlete, but didn’t know how to play basketball. That’s how he found himself out of the league after being a first round pick some years back. I heard his shot was good in the D league. He was one of the lakers last cuts. He might be worth a look. To me it seemed like he had poor work ethic.
I don't want him in the rotation
but as an injury replacement 3rd stringer, you will only get so much.
I heard alot out of the d-league showcase that he has a shot because he was scoring very well.
Also, Jeffries is not a stellar player
His offensive game would make Evans weep, and he isnt a very good rebounder either. He is, however, 6’11, and he is a very versatile defender.
Hopefully he could also pick up some points running the fastbreak.
I was screaming for Vinnie's head when Foye almost singlehandedly let the Lakers back into the game.
Then Vinnie called the time out and I was relieved…. until he didn’t change the line up at all and Foye walked right back onto the court. Then the quarter ended and I was again relieved, confident that Vinnie was playing Foye and CP3 til the end of the 3rd because he was going to start the 4th with Billups. Only the 4th started, and Foye (along with CP3) was STILL out there. Fortunately Foye decided to play a little basketball in the 4th, quickly getting fouled (I wanna say he got 4 quick FTs in the beginning of the 4th) and later hitting that big 3.
What a headache!
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Foye
I’m a little surprised by the Foye bashing today. I thought he played well. In fact, I thought he played terrific defense. Sure, Kobe scored 21 in the third, but how many open looks did he get? Foye stayed in front of him, kept him out of the paint, contested almost every shot. If the shot still goes in, it doesn’t mean the defense wasn’t good.
Of course, Foye was 2 for 11 last night, which isn’t good, but scoring isn’t generally his problem (though scoring efficiently certainly is a challenge). But he did hit two very big shots.
Both Foye and Gomes are useful backups imo. At any rate, I like to make a distinction between the realistic expectations I would have for an NBA backup, and for instance Brian Cook. Foye and Gomes exceed a minimum expectation – Cook doesn’t even come close.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 15, 2012 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
He is fine for a backup, but I think we have more pressing needs in other areas- mainly backup C.
Of all of our guards who could reasonably get something, I am most comfortable in trading him.
I'm pretty fine with our big rotation (barring injury, but that's the case for all teams)
Other than the Lakers, we won’t have to deal with being undersized like we did when Blake + Reggie were out there.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
He's a ball-stopping chucker
I try to have realistic expectations for backups too. But I don’t think it’s unrealistic to expect a backup to pass the friggin’ ball once in a blue moon. Yes, his D on Kobe was pretty tough, but as Kobe was shooting the Lakers back into the game on one end, Foye was shooting them back into the game on the other end.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Foye doesn't meet my minimum expectations
especially since he’s making near MLE money. I’m very confident that neither Gomes or Foye would be a regular rotation player on 90% of the other playoff teams. They only get PT right now because the Clips literally don’t have anyone else (unless you want to play those 2 second rounders).
And Foye was AWFUL last night. You chuck up enough shots some are bound to go in (apparently 2 out of 11 chucks).
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 15, 2012 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
Tale of two foyes
In 24 starts last season, he averaged 16/4 on 41% with 35% threes in 36 minutes…
In his 39 games as a backup, he averaged 6/2 on 35% shooting with 30% threes in 18 minutes.
Half the time, less than half the production. I think he is destined to be a stopgap starting SG on bad rebuilding teams.
Well
At least there’s something that Citizens Chuck and boltsfan can agree on.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 15, 2012 4:23 PM PST up reply actions
We also agreed that the CP3 trade was a no-brainer
And surprisingly found ourselves in the minority.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
That's a mischaracterization actually
Most wanted him. They had concerns about various issues.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Go away
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Go away crazy person
Here you go again.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Go away
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
My girl and I were discussing in the car today
Yes, of course the CP3 trade was a great deal and we got the longer end of that stick. BUT the only frustrating part is to wonder if they could have possibly done the trade without giving up EJ. I’m choosing to trust that the FO explored all non-EJ options, and the Hornets weren’t biting. As long as they did their due diligence, I’m happy. Even if they don’t do their due diligence, I’m annoyed, but still happy because honestly I was just being greedy ever thinking we could keep EJ too.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
C'mon, you really think there's any way that trade gets done w/o EJ?
Remember, to save face, Stern had to be able to make some semblance of an argument that this was a better deal for the Hornets than the one he vetoed. And there’s no plausible scenario in which he could’ve made that argument with a straight face unless EJ was included in the deal. That’s why I couldn’t believe all the vehemence around here about not including EJ under any circumstance. If you have the chance to get a Top 10 (Top 5?) player, you’ve got to do it, and there was no way it was gonna get done without moving EJ. The idea that we were going to have our cake and eat it too was wishful thinking all along.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Of course I don't think that's likely at all
But you’re foolish to say, with no solid proof of any kind besides plain logic, that there’s absolutely no chance a deal could have been made without having to lose EJ. I don’t like dealing with absolutes when it comes to this stuff because it just sounds a little self-serving to say, “there’s absolutely no way” when you really have no way of knowing that. You say there’s no plausible scenario, but I can paint one pretty easily that, while very, very unlikely, isn’t impossible.
Maybe if the Clips had waited longer and starved the Hornets because perhaps they did not have any other legitimate suitors. Yes, we remember the reports that the Lakers were back in the mix, but isn’t it possible that those reports, which were never confirmed by the Lakers, were just a bluff? Or that the Hornets reached out to the Lakers with no intention to deal, but only to force our hand?
Obviously I wouldn’t have wanted the Clippers to go down this path and risk losing out on CP3. If the Hornets want to bluff, you don’t call that bluff because if you’re wrong, you missed out on the best point guard in the game. I’m just saying that I can’t help but wonder if we had somehow played all of our cards right, if there was any possible way to keep EJ.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Of course
There were many issues for the intelligent Clipper fan who is passionate about the team to consider, such as did they overspend by getting rid of one of their best players unnecessarily, would CP3 commit long term here as he already said he wanted to go to the Lakers, do we want to tear up the core, etc.
So for one poster to come on this blog and vehemently attack and belittle any member of the Nation who may have had a different viewpoint is pretty lame IMO.
The Citizens don’t deserve that.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I don't think bolts was trying to belittle me or anything
I just needed to be more clear that I will consider even a 0.00001% chance of having my cake and eating it too (i.e. keeping EJ and getting CP3) as a thorn in my side, no matter how tiny it is. I must, therefore, trust that the FO did all they could and I get some comfort.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
You had a discussion with your girlfriend in the car about basketball?
You sir, live the good life.
"Fact One: Races are won or lost in key moments. Fact Two: Success in the sport is, above all else, about enduring suffering." - Chris MacCormack
whenever he says girl
he means Corey Maggette cutout… this has to go in the next ClipsNation glossary
Actually I agree with Boltsfan on quite a few things
It’s someone else I find quite lacking in any impartiality or analysis.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 15, 2012 7:06 PM PST up reply actions
You and me both, brother
You and me both
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
very confident?
“I’m very confident that neither Gomes or Foye would be a regular rotation player on 90% of the other playoff teams.”
Let’s take a look at this statement. Bearing in mind of course that PER is an imperfect measure, I used a PER of less than 11 (Foye is at 10.6 on the season, Gomes at 5.6) and looked for players averaging at least 10 minutes per game who’ve played at least 90 total minutes. That for me is a reasonable definition of regular rotation (Foye is playing 15.4, Gomes 14 for the Clippers).
There are 82 players in the NBA spread across 27 teams that meet those criteria.
Obviously, about half of the teams aren’t ‘playoff’ teams, so we have to look more closely. But here are some names that seem to meet your criteria:
Jannero Pargo, ATL; Marquis Daniels, Keyon Dooling, Jermaine O’Neal, BOS; Lamar Odom, DAL; Timofey Mozgov, DEN; Dahntay Jones, Lance Stephenson, IND; Steve Blake, Derek Fisher, Devin Ebanks, Troy Murphy, Metta World Peace, Jason Kapono, LAL; Dante Cunningham, Jeremy Pargo, MEM; Joel Anthony, Shane Battier, MIA; Iman Sumpert, Mike Bibby, Bill Walker, Landry Fields, Toney Douglas, NYK; Nazr Mohammed, Kendrick Perkins, Daequan Cook, OKC; Jameer Nelson, Chris Duhon, Glenn Davis, ORL; Matt Bonner, James Anderson, SAS; C.J. Miles, Earl Watson, Raja Bell, UTA.
That leaves only three teams (PHI, CHI and POR) that do not have at least one player on the list. I’d also allow that Denver, Dallas and OKC are deep enough that they probably wouldn’t use Foye or Gomes, current PERs notwithstanding.
So wrapping a little data around this question, it seems to me that at least 10 out of 16 ‘playoff teams’ (whoever they may be) would probably find minutes for Foye or Gomes in their rotations.
Incidentally, concerning the methodology above, it does seem to pass the smell test. CHI, POR, PHI, DAL and DEN have 0 or 1 name on the list and are indeed deep. Meanwhile, New York and the Lakers have LONG lists of names, and are indeed paper thin.
Last thing – by this method, Brian Cook is one of three ‘regulars’ in the league with a negative PER, and the only one on a ‘playoff’ team.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 15, 2012 5:32 PM PST up reply actions
Very interesting list
Some of those guys are obviously better players than their current small-sample-size PERs (Odom, Fields, Nelson, Big Baby), some bring things to the table on the other side of the ball (Perkins, Mohammed, maybe Battier), and a couple are still rookies who look promising and may considerably improve between now and playoff time (Shumpert, Anderson). But like you said, it also reveals which benches are looking thin. And since we have 3 names on the list, two of whom have either microscopic or negative PERs, it seems to lend some credence to the idea that our bench is still pretty darn thin.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
True enough
I’m not arguing that the Clippers bench isn’t thin, nor that Foye and Gomes are great. I am arguing that they are not at all out of place in a playoff rotation. The deep teams (OKC, POR, DEN, etc) stand out for a reason. Most teams aren’t deep, even ‘playoff’ teams.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 17, 2012 9:35 AM PST up reply actions
Good work. And good rebuttal.
Oh, Chuck loves to hate on our three 2010 signings. Foye is nothing special, but he played alright last night and even better the previous two games. It Kobe was shooting over him, that just shows that we could use another defensive SF. But most teams have such problems, as your research suggests. I will say that 5.6 for Gomes is pretty miserable. But I think he can pick it up to more acceptable rotation levels.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
Hate on?
If they were good I would say they were good. Its all on the stats, they suck. They sucked in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012. Different year same story.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 15, 2012 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
Gomes was much better before he came here
Just one example.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
as was Foye
but neither were ever that good. I’m fine with either… just not both together unless we’re up by 20
Regarding PER
It strongly favors chuckers/perimeter players since there’s very little penalty for inefficient offense (which is why Foye looks like a halfway decent player). Guys who set screens, grab rebounds and play defense get little love from PER.
Also rotation players to me would be within the top 8 or 9 on their teams in minutes per game.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 15, 2012 7:16 PM PST up reply actions
OK
Go ahead and check which of those players I listed aren’t in the top “8 or 9” on their teams in minutes per game. It’s the same list.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 17, 2012 9:36 AM PST up reply actions
Thanks for taking the laboring oar
And debunking the myth bandied around these parts
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
LOL
well we know you could never do it yourself. Still waiting for you to break down some plays for us Dr. Jax Ramsay.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 15, 2012 7:50 PM PST up reply actions
Where did you get 10 mpg being the threshold for rotation players
Every team has 10+ of those. The Clips play Gomes and Foye the 8th and 9th minutes (they only got push down by Reggie Evans who has played 4 games so far). How many playoff teams have worse players in the 8th and 9th spots? Especially in PER which favors scoring (inefficient or not) over anything. Heck Reggie Evans has a lower PER than Randy Foye, food for thought right there.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 15, 2012 7:54 PM PST up reply actions
Can you expand your search
to players over 14 mpg. Would love to see how many “playoff” team has guys like them playing that many minutes.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 15, 2012 7:55 PM PST up reply actions
My research shows...
Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, Indiana, Lakers, Grizzlies, Miami, Knicks, OKC, Orlando, Spurs, and Jazz are all playoff-caliber teams with sub-11 PER players receiving over 14 minutes per game. Atlanta, too, has Pargo at 6.5 PER playing 13.1 minutes. Denver has a rotation player with a 10.9 PER. Portland, meanwhile, has 3 players below 12, but no one under 11. If I’m not mistaken, only Philli is so free of sub-mediocrity. Meeks is their worst at 24.4 minutes with a 13.1 PER.
The point is that, according to PER, our 8th and 9th rotation players are not uniquely or even very notably sub-par. Boston has Dooling and Daniels at 8.6 and 5.6 PER. Indiana has Jones playing 17.3 min with a 7.9 PER. Lakers have Murphy and Ebanks each with 8.1 PER. The Grizz have Cunningham and Purgo with 8.9 and 8.5 PER. Miami plays Anthony 21.7 min with a 9.3 PER. The Knicks play Jeffries 17.5 min with a 2.7 PER, while Bibby has a 9.8 PER. Orlando has Duhon at 18.7 min with 9.3 PER. Spurs have Bonner at 10.8 and Anderson at 8.1 PER. The Jazz play Watson and Miles, 10 and 10.8 respectively. Dallas qualifies with Odom, though we’ll see how long that lasts.
I agree that we could use an upgrade, but so could a lot of teams.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
that's the whole idea with the cap and stuff
on the bright side: it also means that we are going to be able to replace Foye and Gomes with min contract guys when they expire and get the same production.
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 15, 2012 9:36 PM PST up reply actions
Boston
as of today isn’t a playoff team at 4-7. Much of the reason is their terrible bench.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 15, 2012 9:45 PM PST up reply actions
which kind of shows that it isn't easy to get a decent rotation
Boston knew what their problems were. OK, Green’s illness they couldn’t foresee but the rest? And Ainge has a stellar reputation.
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 15, 2012 10:07 PM PST up reply actions
Apparently all you got left
Is arguing around the periphery
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Wow
You and Steve just decimated the central argument to an entire year of Olshey-bashing by one of our most vociferous Citizens.
The emperor suddenly has no clothes. Maybe we can move on now. Finally.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I think the camps used to be much more evenly divided
Pretty much everyone didn’t like the Foye/Gomes/Cook signings, but it seemed like half were willing to forgive Neil and half had already lost faith in him. Now with the Chris Paul, Chauncey Billups, and Reggie Evans signings, I think nearly everyone has renewed faith in Olshey. Naturally, as they continue to play like they do (especially Cookie), people are going to complain about how much they suck (especially Cookie). I don’t think that should be immediately taken an attempt to bash Olshey—-I mean, those guys have earned our disdain (especially Cookie)—-but if it is just Olshey-bashing, then it’s pretty pointless when 99% of us agree that the awesomeness of his 3 good signings have significantly outweighed the lameness of his 3 bad signings.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Listen up
Here’s what we don’t do… we don’t make statements that we don’t back up. “Every team has 10+ of those” is not a true statement. I spent 30 seconds and found a bunch of teams that don’t. Including the Clippers, so you’d think that the whole “Every team” thing would have been a non-starter from the git go.
I try not to take sides on Jax vs. anyone battles. Most of the time I do, I’m opposite Jax. But what he does and what you’re doing here is saying stuff from the omniscient basketball fan perspective, and that doesn’t fly. DATA.
As you see below, SilverClip redid the search with 14 mpg. It’s largely the same list.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 17, 2012 9:46 AM PST up reply actions
Cook had a PER of 11.6 last season
His stats were quite alright last season.
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 15, 2012 9:26 PM PST up reply actions
yeah it was one of those rare moments of creative thinking
doesn’t happen often to me
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 15, 2012 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
Foye played well?
His 10 points on 11 shot attempts is pretty typical Foye, and while his defense was pretty good (for all the reasons you mentioned), he offset that by turning the ball over and singlehandedly spurring that Laker run. I thought Butler was doing a much better job, but they switched him off of Kobe at the half because he was getting tired and couldn’t contribute on offense.
I certainly think that would have been “playing well” if he were supposed to be the 8th or 9th player off the bench, as it is with the usual rotations, but considering he was supposed to be our “Mo Williams” 6th man for the night, I was pretty underwhelmed.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Paul is remarkably efficient on offense
He is averaging 18/8.4/3 and shooting a remarkable 52% on field goals and 46% on three pointers. If he can get his ft% up few ticks, he could well have a 40/50/90 season of Simmons folklore.
I believe there was a statistic mentioned during the game about C.Paul's scoring on isolation plays?
I believe he was #1?
That's what Ralph said
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 15, 2012 4:23 PM PST up reply actions
Kobe was really feeling it
I"m not sure if his ball hoggishness last night was really representative of his overall game this season. Especially in the 2nd half, if he’s making everything, he might as well keep it going. 1st half, the ball movement seemed better, but everyone was missing, including Bynum and Pau. I don’t know I guess it’s something to monitor, but I think if Pau and/or Bynum are playing well, Kobe will look for them.
It was always an issue with Kobe though, kinda a chicken or an egg thing, are his teammates aren’t playing well because he’s not getting them the ball? or is kobe not looking for them because every time he does pass it to them, they miss?
Does this bother anyone else?
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2012/1/15/2708523/schedule-losses-get-used-to-them
Lakers fans never give Clips any credit. On two preseason wins: they are preseason games, they don’t count. On this win: It’s a “scheduling loss.” (among other bogus excuses) Wonder what the next excuse will be?
You can bet that if the Lakers win any games against us this year, we’re all going to hear a lot from our Lakers friends/acquaintances/strangers about how the Clippers suck and will never amount to any thing, so bottom line is… Clips, please don’t lose any games to the Lakers! So glad we got this win.
P.S., we need to get more fans out for the next home game against the Lakers. We were definitely outnumbered in the 300 section!
In their defense, I do believe there is SOME credence to that argument
I’m sure if the Clippers drop a game on the back-end of a back-to-back-to-back, the Clippers could legitimately use that reasoning too. Similarly, isn’t that partly why everyone hates the month of February, due to the road games? I don’t think it’s an excuse to point out a grueling part of a schedule and concede that there are already tough games that will be tilted towards a loss due to the scheduling.
In the end, one’s hope is that the scheduling does balance out for the teams and no team was favored too much.
precludes
It annoys me that Chris used ‘preclude’ when he meant ‘precede’ twice in the first two paragraphs.
Here’s the thing – If the Clippers win the next 15 NBA championships in a row, Lakers fans will say “Talk to me when you have 16 banners.” And that’s their right. We could have all chosen to root for the team with the most championships too, but where’s the fun in that?
Don’t worry about it. We’ll see them again on the 25th and we’ll see what happens then. Both teams will be on two days rest, so we’ll have to wait and see what the excuse is then.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 15, 2012 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
Well, if we are healthy
they will say that Steve Blake is out, and so they didn’t have a bench. I think that if we had Mo Williams take some of Foye’s 11 shots on Saturday we would have won much more easily.
Yes, it's their right
But I don’t believe they’re being honest when they say it’s more important that they won sixteen banners in the PAST then it is to win the game they are watching RIGHT NOW.
I just hate the banners argument when we're discussing who is the better team in 2011-12
It’s not about who has the better franchise. I probably couldn’t find a single member of this site that could honestly argue that the Clippers are somehow a better franchise than the Lakers. They are two completely separate arguments. The Lakers are one of the best franchises in all of sports, but this year, they have regressed into a team that is less competitive than the Clippers. This was the case in 05-06, so why is it so hard to swallow that pill now?
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
JUMBACO commercial just came on and it made me smile. Now I can't stop laughing.
JUMBACO JUMBACO JUMBACO
A typical conversation after a Clippers victory and a Lakers loss.
Clippers fan: Yes, we won!!
Lakers fan: Talk to me when you guys win 16 champions.
Lakers fans…. Arrghhh…..
we’re cheap, like to drink and are pissed off.
WHO WANTS A FREE SHARPIE?? -- Blake Griffin
Or a more accurate version...lol...
Clippers fan: "What do you get…JUMBACO< JUMBACO< JUMBACO!!! "
(thinks that lakers fan can’t retort that preseason means nothing, pulls up confidence)
“Hooray!”
Lakers fan: Lakers are 20 times cooler, fuck off, one game, sweet 16, lucky, …."(rambles on about kobe power, lakers girls>Clipper Spirit, kobester, shaq shoots better than clippers from 3, jumbaco sucks, lawler rascist….etc. etc……………………)

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