Exclusive: Clippers now on Dwight Howard’s wish list
Dwight Howard thinks more highly of the Clippers than Sheridan does.
If this is the case, why don't we amnesty Mo, let Foye walk, and cut another piece or two and sign Dwight as a FA?
DJ can back him up.
Not five, not six, not seven, not eight...
4 months ago
Gordon for President
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Comments
If true, it is amazing what
CP3, Blake, Caron, DJ and Billups do to attract others
by lovinglosangeles on Jan 16, 2012 3:24 PM PST reply actions
Dj is too expensive people
We would need to dump him somewhere. He makes 10mil… you can’t pay a backup C 10.75mil. Mo makes 8.5 and plays PG and SG alot
True
This article here lays out how it can be done…
http://www.cbssports.com/print/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/34428410
by lovinglosangeles on Jan 16, 2012 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
Good point.
In my haste, I forgot two things. Mo would fit EXCELLENTLY w/ a Dwight/Blake front court (much as he does now) and DJ will be incredibly EASY to trade.
HOU or even GSW could send us picks or some cheap role playing wings. Maybe Courtney Lee/Terence Williams from HOU for DJ.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 16, 2012 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
Plus, we could secure some big endorsements for DH to make up part of his salary.
by lovinglosangeles on Jan 16, 2012 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
I'm saying in th event we sign Dwight as a FA.
Still don’t buy ORL would take DJ/Bled over Andrew Bynum.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 16, 2012 4:08 PM PST up reply actions
people seem to think
that Dwight will sign for less if he gets a bid adidas deal. Rose got a crazy huge one this year. But rose also got a max extension, as DH will want.
Fair enough...
but Dwight isn’t looking for an extension with the team he’s currently on. He wants to form a superteam and dominate the league. He could very well be willing to take a smaller contract to make that a reality, with assurances that he could more than recoup the difference through a blockbuster endorsement deal.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
The Clippers would be responsible for endorsements?
You don’t know how it works. Or maybe by “us” you mean “us fans”. This is dopey.
Sorry I meant the Front Office... And it is done all the time
by lovinglosangeles on Jan 16, 2012 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
Use him for Black History Month.
Make sure they use a 2012 calendar.
"Great Balls Of Fire, Reggie's Back!"
"And it is done all the time"
Really?
Links, examples, help me out.
Generally players have agents, sometimes multiple agents, or agencies that hook up, push for, or develop endorsement deals. The teams have NOTHING to do with them. Do you think the Clippers have anything to do with Blake Griffin’s Subway or Kia deals?
I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be rude, but you don’t have a clue.
99% agree with you in terms of endorsement found by agents
If you don’t agree with it, you can watch any sports movie with an agent it in, you’ll realize the agents are what sets endorsements up. If you need a family friendly movie, the Game Plan is a very good example of it (with The Rock.)
However, what lovingLA might have meant was, even if Dwight takes less, there are many many endorsements for Dwight if he comes to LA from ORL. The question is, why would Dwight take less and earn less? If he would take less just to be in LA, one would assume LAL would be on his wishlist.
Another possibility lovingLA might have meant was that playing with the LA Clippers would open doors for more endorsements? Specifically Los Angeles of course. But again, I still don’t see how front office and go to an outside source such as Addidas, and have them pay for 30Mil of his salary. Take it like this, one job for Dwight is playing for the ORL. His other job is to market and use his franchise image to make another salary. These two things should not- be substituted to be paid for one or the other.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
To clairfy
that 1% for me is that the team provides marketability. If Joe Johnson was on the Lakers, one would think he’d get much more attention than he is getting right now.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
Yeah..
was just trying to make something justifiable.. Maybe it’s best i “C” my way out. LOL
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
Lakers fans will be crying lakes if this went down!
We need Bill Walton back: "Where would the LA Clippers franchise be without Sean Rooks? Bo Outlaw might be the best pick up of the off season.
THROW IT DOWN BIG MAN...THROW IT DOWN"
___________
Follow @manlinessprime
You so right. They'd claim the League is playing favoritism.
by lovinglosangeles on Jan 16, 2012 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
Of all people to claim that, too...
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
"OMG STERN MUST HAVE BRIBED OTIS SMITH TO MAKE THAT TRADE... NO FAIR!"
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
It would be hilarious.
Lakers wanted Paul and Howard to team with Kobe. Paul and Howard both came to LA, but to play with Blake.
The Lakers wouldn’t be the only ones pissed. A lot of people are showing their hate for the Clips right now, just imagined how magnified it would be if we were able to bring in Howard. LeBron and Miami would no longer be catching all the heat for the decision.
Proud member of Club FTR
by Lawler 4ever on Jan 16, 2012 7:22 PM PST up reply actions
Alot of Laker fans showing hate to Paul as well.
I’m really not sure what Paul did. I know it’s probably anywhere in the range of 30-80% jealousy, but Laker fans are really showing that they know nothing of Paul’s character. They act as if Paul was the driver to coming to the Clippers. In reality though, I do remember Lakers being on Paul’s lists of possible destinations.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
I would think DJ + Bledsoe would have to be part of the deal...
But three max contracts is an awful cap situation to be in…
We need Bill Walton back: "Where would the LA Clippers franchise be without Sean Rooks? Bo Outlaw might be the best pick up of the off season.
THROW IT DOWN BIG MAN...THROW IT DOWN"
___________
Follow @manlinessprime
people in the gamethread saying DH would sign for the midlevel
too bad that
A) He wouldn’t, and
B) there is no midlevel in the new CBA
we already are becoming dilusional.
oh no, we're becoming Lakers fans! =(
We need Bill Walton back: "Where would the LA Clippers franchise be without Sean Rooks? Bo Outlaw might be the best pick up of the off season.
THROW IT DOWN BIG MAN...THROW IT DOWN"
___________
Follow @manlinessprime
by banandy on Jan 16, 2012 4:01 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This is what I was afraid of...
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
The logic of this, as Ireland and Mychael Thompson discussed
Is that Howard and his agent would ask Adidas for a HUGE contract, then take a smaller deal, not necessarily the midlevel, for the opportunity to team with Blake, CP, and take over basketball for the next decade.
by cassellmania on Jan 16, 2012 4:33 PM PST up reply actions
BTW, i am not saying i think this will happen- its ludicrous
Im mentioning it because i think its amazing how 2 of the biggest Laker homers spent 10 minutes talking about getting Dwight to the Clippers. Times have indeed changed.
by cassellmania on Jan 16, 2012 4:36 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, it's completely ludicrous.
DH would take 15 million dollars per year LESS to sign with the Clips? What does the endorsement deal have to do with LA or the Clippers? Why couldn’t he also get it in Brooklyn? Why wouldn’t he stay in Florida that has NO STATE INCOME TAX and do even better?
This whole thing is idiotic.
Yes, why noy Brooklyn?
Mikhail Prokhorov could easily pay an extra 20 Mil under the table. Now he won’t need to report income tax whatsoever.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
they got rid of it
and made the mini-midlevel, which is only 2.5, not 5.76… of did they get rid of the bi-annual for the mmle?
mini-mid-level = mid-level
That’s what I thought anyway, but I am far from knowledgeable about cap stuff.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
the mid-level was a legit contract
5.76 with 8% raises foor up to 5 years. mini-mle is 2.5 for one year.
Mini-MLE is for teams that started FA under the cap but went over
Full MLE still exists for teams that began FA over the cap.
Take with a grain of salt, as this is based on my recollection of a Steve Perrin post from about a month ago.
The Mid-Level still exists.
Mid-Level Exception (Non-Tapayer MLE) is for teams that are over the cap, but under the luxury tax threshold. $5M (starting salary), 3% annual growth, up to 4 years.
Mini-MLE (Taxpayer MLE) is $2.5M (starting salary) and up to 2 years for teams that are over the luxury tax threshold. 3% raises.
Bi-Annual Exception is $1.9M (starting salary) up to 2 years with 3% raises. Can be used every other year.
$2.5M exception is for teams that were under the cap, made a few signings and now over the cap. We have this one at our disposal right now.
Proud member of Club FTR
by Lawler 4ever on Jan 16, 2012 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Thanks
Important stuff to know
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
I think people should really utilize the rec
it’s there for a reason and stuff like this should be green.
I was even wondering at one point why the Lakers didn’t use their Mid-Level this off season, but I’m guessing it’s because they are over the luxury tax threshold.
Btw, someone care to explain what the luxury tax threshold is?
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
It's above the regular cap
around 10 mil more, I think. In the old CBA, every dollar you paid over the luxury cap, you paid that dollar again to the league. In the new CBA, it is getting progressively worse, until it reaches 1:4.5 in a few years. Basically, if you have:
$80,000,000 payroll with a $60,000,000 regular cap and a $70,000,000 luxury cap, you are (obviously) $10,000,000 over the luxury cap. In the old CBA, you had to pay the 80 mil in player salaries, plus 10 mil to the league. In the new CBA, it will eventually become 80 mil in salaries + 45 million in tax… That is steep.
The luxury tax dollars are pooled together and evenly distributed to non-taxpaying teams.
I have to question the basketball knowledge of anyone who thinks Dwight will sign for the MLE.
We aren’t Laker fans.
I'm pretty sure Dwight would sign with the clips for the veteran's minimum!
by NoBandwagoners on Jan 16, 2012 4:27 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I'm pretty sure that's what a Laker fan would say...
before pointing out how many championships they’ve won.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Honestly, this just seems like Dwight Howard being childish again
He’s asking/putting another possible request (option) that is unrealistic.
I love DJ but if he had to be included in a deal to land DH, I'd probably do it.
by lovinglosangeles on Jan 16, 2012 4:30 PM PST reply actions
Becoming besties with Blake...?
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 16, 2012 6:46 PM PST up reply actions
If we were willing to part with Gordon to get Paul
there should absolutely no reason to part with Jordan to get Howard.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
And here is what I believe
there is an obviously a talent gap between Gordon and Paul, but there is a substantial talent gap between Jordan and Howard.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
For one, how do we even know this is legit? It is Sheridan.
For all we know, Dwight could have been dead set on Dallas for a few years.
considering how much of a Clipper hater he's shown to be...I think it seems even more legit
We need Bill Walton back: "Where would the LA Clippers franchise be without Sean Rooks? Bo Outlaw might be the best pick up of the off season.
THROW IT DOWN BIG MAN...THROW IT DOWN"
___________
Follow @manlinessprime
Yeah...
if he didn’t have VERY good sources for the story, Sheridan probably would have buried it in favor of more “Dwight, CP3, AND Griffin to the Lakers ASAP” garbage.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
O/T but sort of relevant to this I guess
Given the playing time issue, is there a decent chance that M.Williams will just opt out of his contract and aim to find a starting role/long term contract this coming off-season?
I think that he already opted in as part of the trade
and IDK if he can get 8.5 million anywhere else.
Well, if he keeps up being a productive force off the bench,
He probably could get $6ish? J.Crawford got $5 million to be a bench player. I would think a long term deal would make him get over losing a few million in the short term. Who knows…
I'm not quite sure, I think it depends on Mo's values.
I think it would benefit him monetarily to stay with the Clippers, but I think he wants to play.
But didn't you hear that the Lakers want him and we'd get McRoberts in return? :-)
by lovinglosangeles on Jan 16, 2012 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
lol
So do we have a mini-crisis of “trade him for something or lose him for nothing” with M.Williams?
It's ok to lose Mo Williams for nothing, at that salary
Next season we should be able to find an equally/more productive player for the same amount.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Don't forget about the re-signing Billups talk...
I’ve always assumed that money would come from dumping Williams and losing Foye. Then again, I have no idea how much re-signing Billups will actually cost. Not the 14M he’s getting this year.
Billups' contract is going to be an interesting situation when it comes up.
What amount does he think he’s worth? $14M to the MLE is a big paycut. Does he want around what Butler got? Butler is at $8M a year at 31 going on 32, but Billups is going to be 36 in September. Does he want Ray Allen money? $10M. I know that he still thinks highly of himself, so there’s no telling what his asking price may be.
Proud member of Club FTR
by Lawler 4ever on Jan 17, 2012 12:00 AM PST up reply actions
Ray Allen money could be about right
and he production would be about right for something 8-10m range. I’m cool with a 2 year 18 million deal.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 17, 2012 1:22 AM PST up reply actions
???
Really?
This is probably something fodder for a fresh thread but, I’m not sure about re-signing Billups that high. Priority’s going to be signing a 2/3 wing for something around Butler’s numbers. You’ve got two years before you have to max Griffin and Paul, which is going to take you to the luxury tax. You’ve still got Mo and I don’t know how many minutes Billups will actually see this year.
To my mind you’ve got to make a choice: Billups or Mo. I’d take Billups but then you have to send out Mo… and he’s not cheap for what he brings.
If we pull the trigger on Dwight we will only be able to get Minimum level guys.
Anyone think it’s realistic to add Dwight, keep Caron, and then get Billups and Ray Allen (who would start) on Vet’s Minimum deals?
Scary.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 17, 2012 9:54 AM PST up reply actions
Unrealistic
Getting Dwight would take some big big moves.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 17, 2012 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
Butler makes 8 million a year
so yea paying Billups 8 million a year is fine as long as its a short deal. Billups is a great shooter and has crafty moves that rely on athleticism so he will age (or is aging) well. The market for him will be pretty soft since teams with cap room have no need for him (see lack of teams bidding in amnesty auction) so only veteran teams with the MLE can pursue him. Maybe you can convince him to take 6-7 million, it depends on how to spread out the money, how many more years the Clips think he can sustain his level of play, how many more years Chauncey wants to still play etc etc. Clips can’t really afford to lose him though, they would only have the MLE and its hard to get a player the caliber of Billups for 5m a year not to mention you would be up against all the other teams with the same contract offers.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 17, 2012 4:48 PM PST up reply actions
um
dont rely on athleticism.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 17, 2012 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
Dwight as a Clipper...
DO NOT WANT….. Its bad for the NBA.
we’re cheap, like to drink and are pissed off.
WHO WANTS A FREE SHARPIE?? -- Blake Griffin
No, it's good for the NBA actually.
Superteams get people talking about the NBA, and ultimately bring in ratings and money.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
Yea, but what about the small market teams?
They will have no chance at winning.
we’re cheap, like to drink and are pissed off.
WHO WANTS A FREE SHARPIE?? -- Blake Griffin
by ClipperBEAST on Jan 16, 2012 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
Oklahoma City and San Antonio have done just fine...
Hell, even though we’re in LA, the Clippers are kind of a small-market team as well since the Lakers have the bigger fanbase and wider influence in the region.
I’m a big believer in smart drafting, wise free-agent signings, and meticulous adherence to keeping as much flexibility as possible.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
Clippers are not a small market team.
Not by any measure.
You could cut LA into twenty pieces and each one would be bigger than New Orleans or Charlotte.
He's not going to end up on a small market team anyway.
If he signs with a team outright in FA, it’s going to be Dallas or Brooklyn.
Proud member of Club FTR
by Lawler 4ever on Jan 16, 2012 7:36 PM PST up reply actions
Im saying that the superstars in the league always wants to go to the big cities like L.A., New York, Chicago, etc.
How on earth are teams like Milwaukee, Toronto, Cleveland, and many more supposed to compete against that?
we’re cheap, like to drink and are pissed off.
WHO WANTS A FREE SHARPIE?? -- Blake Griffin
by ClipperBEAST on Jan 16, 2012 8:08 PM PST up reply actions
Then what do you do when your superstars hit UFA?
No easy answers here.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 16, 2012 8:24 PM PST up reply actions
It usually takes about at least 7 years for that to happen.
Also, with the new CBA… superstar players can make more money staying with their team (the DRose rule) so hopefully that’s enough incentive to stay?
You have to give them a great reason to stay.
When Paul Pierce voiced his displeasure with the Celtics FO (get help or trade), they got him Garnett and Allen.
When Kobe threw his tantrum, the Lakers got Pau Gasol for a bag of chips.
George Shinn did not want to pay to keep players in New Orleans. Paul was upset that that vital members of the team were traded away. The moves were for financial reasons, but you’re not going to convince a star to stay if you don’t spend.
Cleveland surrounded LeBron with nice complementary role players, but the best players outside of him were Mo Williams and old man Z. They’re nice to have, but not 2nd and 3rd best on a contender quality. Shaq was a player in name only.
Otis Smith made some risky trades to try to make it work in Orlando, but it ended up wiping away their cap flexibility. Dwight is entering his prime years and wants to be surrounded by more than 30+ Jameer Nelson, Turkoglu and hoping that Ryan Anderson can keep performing well. He sees Amar’e with Melo; LeBron and Wade with Bosh; Kobe with Gasol and Bynum; and many other of his peers on teams with quality 2nd and 3rd options. He now wants out. If they could go after Deron, he would probably stay.
As shay stated, you have 7 years minimum to make it work when you draft a stud. Get it right instead of scrambling when the time is almost up. Thankfully for us, Neil gets it.
I would love to see more Reggie Millers, Tim Duncans, John Stocktons, etc. but the media has made it hard with all of their criticisms. They all want rings so they’re not considered failures. You’re nobody unless you win. It doesn’t matter that a lot of it depends on the organization, staff (Coach & GM), quality of teammates and the ability to attract bargain value free-agents. Every championship team in the history of the game has had a combination of hall-of-fame talent and all-stars. The big market teams are more likely to be attractive to other players and will have the deeper pockets to put together quality teams.
Toronto is probably the 4th or 5th biggest city outside of NY, LA or Chicago, but it’s in Canada and haven’t done a great job of building good teams. They have had stars/stars in the making (e.g. Carter, Bosh, McGrady), but need to build on it.
Proud member of Club FTR
by Lawler 4ever on Jan 16, 2012 11:23 PM PST up reply actions
I think the fact that it’s Toronto makes it a deal breaker already. When I think of what mostly consist of Toronto’s players, I think of international players, players that are a little more overpaid for a contract, and players that aren’t wanted on other teams. It’s not just that Toronto can’t build good teams, it’s that nobody wants to play for the Canadians. Why do I say that? Because nobody wanted to play for Toronto or Vancouver. You can name a team Canada Canucks in basketball, playing for a foreign country just doesn’t have an appeal.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
Didn't the league just go through a lockout asking these very questions?
As GfP says, there are no easy answers.
Actually, there is an easy answer. It’s called a hard cap. Only none of the players and half of the owners don’t want.
CP3 just got traded to a big market team
So obviously this whole lockout was a waste of time.
we’re cheap, like to drink and are pissed off.
WHO WANTS A FREE SHARPIE?? -- Blake Griffin
by ClipperBEAST on Jan 16, 2012 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
Depends on your perspective.
The owners cut the players salaries by twelve percent. That’s significant to them.
The truth is the disparity between the have and the have-not teams doesn’t really have that much to do with the CBA. Revenue sharing between the teams would solve some of the problems, but ownership kept that out of the negotiations.
The truth is, the big big big market teams have no interest in a hard cap or a level-playing field. The Knicks, the Bulls, the Lakers like the playing field the way it is, thank you.
The Clippers were, and always have been, a small-market team (before CP3).
As whacky as that sounds, it was totally true. Seems to be ending (spectacularly so). That’s why no one really cared if he came to the Clippers.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 16, 2012 9:51 PM PST up reply actions
Don't agree GfP...
They’ve always ACTED like a small market team, but it’s those 20 million Los Angeles area media eyeballs that have kept them in profit despite the fact that they’ve fielded a crummy team. But the Clips have NEVER lost money… if they’d fielded that same team in say, San Diego… they would’ve lost their shirts.
I totally agree.
We were a small-market team in everything but name (city?).
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 16, 2012 11:01 PM PST up reply actions
Yes.
Big Market City, Small Market Mentality.
Proud member of Club FTR
by Lawler 4ever on Jan 16, 2012 11:25 PM PST up reply actions
Bottom line is that every team should have a chance at winning a championship
I just hope that the days of superstars going to the big market teams are over. And one more thing, do you think that John Wall will re-up with the Wizards or will he go to another team?
we’re cheap, like to drink and are pissed off.
WHO WANTS A FREE SHARPIE?? -- Blake Griffin
by ClipperBEAST on Jan 16, 2012 9:53 PM PST up reply actions
It's your opinion CB that every team should have a chance...
but Knicks and Lakers owners (and fans) would probably disagree.
John Wall? Washington’s a pretty big media market. I think most Wizard fans would tell you that John Wall is not really as good as advertised. His stats are woeful… and he doesn’t seem to be improving much. Re-up? Why?
I don't know.. just always a thought in my mind
we’re cheap, like to drink and are pissed off.
WHO WANTS A FREE SHARPIE?? -- Blake Griffin
by ClipperBEAST on Jan 16, 2012 11:09 PM PST up reply actions
He is in a very horrible situation atm.
John Wall has talent and potential, but it must be cultivated. Washington is full of low B-Ball IQ players and that’s not what a player like Wall needs. They need a coach that commands respect, veterans that can mentor the young players and to trade away some of the knuckleheads.
We had a ton of players with “potential” in the past, but didn’t have the right environment. If you look at the Celtics, Lakers, Spurs, etc. there are systems in place, order, structure, and a sense of pride. Bad organizations typically do not have that. Nick Young, JaVale McGee, Andray Blatche, Crawford are talented, but selfish and unfocused.
You can look at the Blazers and Pacers as teams that made a decision to go with character and hardworking individuals over players that were talented but more trouble than they were worth. Sacramento is a team with talent, but will probably end up having to pick one of Cousins and Evans to build around for the future.
I hope for Wall’s sake that the next coach brings order to the Wizards and that they make the proper personnel changes. Environment means everything.
Proud member of Club FTR
by Lawler 4ever on Jan 16, 2012 11:38 PM PST up reply actions
I think they thought they had the right coach in Flip Saunders...
But that team seems to have a lock on knuckleheads.
It'll just create a sense of apathy in small market cities.
So while more big city teams profit, smaller markets slip down.
Contraction anyone?
Hey, I always say
if your market does not have the fan base to support a professional sport team, then do not get one. I know I am cynical.
by lovinglosangeles on Jan 16, 2012 4:52 PM PST up reply actions
If a city proves over a long period of time that they don't care about their team...
and it has a drastic financial impact on the franchise, then that franchise needs to either move or get contracted. Simple as that. Look no further than the NHL to see what happens when a league over-expands and then stubbornly clings on to unwanted franchises.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
Not sure that makes sense///
By “city”, are you talking about the fans? Or the city fathers, who don’t want to use taxpayers money to build new arenas?
What about the people who put the franchise in that city to begin with?
George Shinn moved the Hornets to New Orleans (a city of 400,000) when he couldn’t make a buck in Charlotte. The NBA had to bail him out and take over the franchise. Who’s fault is it that the city can’t really support an NBA franchise? Do you think NO doesn’t “deserve” a franchise?
So, you say, “contract” them… but the franchise still has value… but who takes the loss?
What if you contract Charlotte? Does the NBA buy out Michael Jordan for 180M? Or do they just fold it and say, “tough luck, that didn’t work out”.
It’s a very complex subject.
The idea of forming SUPER teams has been mind-numbing.
I think NBA fans are collectively getting dumber with all the trade/free agent speculation. Chris Broussard and his ESPN mothership are collectively stunting mental faculties of grown ass men.
DHoward takes the league minimum to play for the Clips!
we’re the Clippers! everyone wants to come to LA and play for the Clip Show! ; )
saw this trade idea somewhere
DeAndre Jordan
Mo Williams
Eric Bledsoe
Reggie Evans
2013 Clippers 1st Round Pick
2014 Clippers 1st Round Pick
FOR
Deight Howard
Hedo Turkoglu
Clips need to keep some picks
Eventually, the team needs to reload…and geting talent slightly btr than Thompkins/Leslie for cheap.
"After the first six minutes I was heavily winded"-Andrew Bynum
Even though I don't see Howard coming to LA happening
must we trade away Evans? Evans is really becoming a fan favorite..
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
Ignore this...
Evans is on a minimum deal, there’s no reason to include him. I doubt Orlando even wants Williams.
Minimum deals.
The idea of Dwight is great, I just would hope Neil asks Blake if trading away DJ for Dwight is acceptable. Blake, being the winner he is, should sign off on it, but just asking will be enough to keep him happy respected.
Chauncey, Reggie, Ray Allen on Vet’s deals here could really flesh out our roster.
So cool to think about.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 17, 2012 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
C'mon enough already
Do people actually believe before Blake Griffin signs his next contract he will check to see where DJ is playing and then only play for that team? Griffin is about winning. Period.
No.
But one of the main reasons Dwight wants out is because Otis Smith shipped out Courtney Lee and then Rashard Lewis without even informing Dwight. he was close to both those guys, especially Lee. I’m not saying don’t ever trade DJ, I’m saying clue your superstar in beforehand to maintain good will.
Period.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 17, 2012 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
To sign him as a free agent
Clips would have to let Foye walk (easy)
Find a expiring contract for Gomes (not so easy)
Trade Mo for an expiring or the Lakers trade exception (easier)
And even then Dwight would have to take less than the max.
Can do a in season trade for him I guess. Might have to take back a bad contract though.
Maybe Hedo, Howard for Mo, DJ, Foye, Bledsoe?
ESPN’s trade machine is broken but I think that works cap wise because the new CBA’s 40% rule.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
new rule is 50%, I think
according to hoopshype,
Dwight: 17.885
Hedo: 10.6
Orlando Total: 28.485
DJ: 10.08
Mo: 8.5
Bledsoe: 1.6
Foye: 4.25
Clppers total: 24.43
This is remarkably close. if we threw in Cook’s expiring and a minimum, we would be close enough to do this under the old CBA (10% plus 100,000). If we add Gomes, the salaries match.
Question is, does Orlando do this?
Personally don't see a reason why they would
Unless they’re really high on E.Bledsoe (the injury doesn’t help his trade value), there is no reason to want D.Jordan…unless they think they’d lose A.Bynum soon.
I'm not saying they have him
I’m saying why they would prefer a package of the Clippers over the Lakers.
Sorry if that sentence wasn't clear
I was considering how A.Bynum’s contract has 2 more years on it; unless they wanted a longer term option in D.Jordan to work with (and a cheaper one at that), there would be no reason to prefer him over A.Bynum.
ah. got it
Also, the Clippers are offering other pieces AND taking back a contract. But if Lakers throw in Pau for Hedo that is done
I have to think they have better offers
I’m think Mo, DJ and Bledsoe, 2nd round picks and cash is our best offer (they wouldn’t want Foye other than contract filler). I think other teams could offer more.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 16, 2012 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
Totally agree
Can’t believe this is possible as a deadline deal, because I can’t imagine our best offer being competitive. But from the article, it sounds like it’s far more likely that the Magic will take their best shot at competing this season and then hope they can convince Dwight to stay. If we’re in the mix, the most likely scenario would be a sign-and-trade involving DJ and some other piece to make the salaries match.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Personally, my answer is.
No way in heck do they do this. DJ is good, but let’s face it, Bynum is much better. DJ just happens to fit our game much better than other C’s would. Williams is good, but he isn’t great, so he won’t be a HUGE factor for the trade. Bledsoe is a nice young prospect, but yet again, he won’t have a huge impacty. Foye is merely an expiring contract. All in all, our trade package is weak.
Agree.
Why take DJ when you can take Bynum?
However, Jim Buss may still be crushing on Bynum too hard to trade him. And if Dwight REALLY wants to move out of Shaq’s shadow he can tell ORL to take our package or watch him walk. Dwight can always threaten not to re-sign with the Lakers if traded for Bynum, but this means he really wants to be a Clipper (and would the Lakers really buy Dwight’s bluff? I wouldn’t).
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 16, 2012 6:49 PM PST up reply actions
According to Sheridan...
the Magic aren’t high on Bynum. DJ is a less complete player than Bynum for sure, but he also has a very high ceiling. Plus if we throw in Mo, then they’ll actually have a point guard and not Jameer Nelson.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
I still wouldn't think that D.Jordan's ceiling is even close to A.Bynum's skills as of now.
I’m guessing everyone is just sketchy on A.Bynum’s durability. Beyond that, what can he not do that D.Jordan can?
I'm not saying DJ is close to Bynum...
but the Magic apparently don’t like Bynum, and maybe they’d prefer a package of DeAndre, Mo, EBled, and Foye over Bynum and scrubs. (Doesn’t look like the Lakers are willing to part with Bynum AND Pau.)
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
Perhaps, and who knows honestly if the Lakers are offering A.Bynum in a package
SSR had a post a bit back last time noting how trading for D.Howard wouldn’t necessarily solve any of their problems (and I do agree with that thinking). The post offered an interesting idea of the Lakers just trading P.Gasol for pieces like R.Anderson that give the Lakers a more balanced game, while giving Orlando another piece to put next to D.Howard. Seemed intriguing.
And trading Pau AND Bynum for Dwight, which I've heard quite a few Lakers fans voice support for...
actually creates more problems for the Lakers, as a gaping hole opens up at power forward. That’s especially a big problem since the West is stacked at PF (Griffin, Aldridge, Love, etc).
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
If they want to do it
I’m all for it. Go ahead Lakers, pull that trigger.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Also, they'll be over the cap as long as Kobe is getting $30M/yr.
Proud member of Club FTR
by Lawler 4ever on Jan 16, 2012 11:40 PM PST up reply actions
this isn't going to happen
lets not be laker fans, lets be realistic.
by cantthinkofagoodname on Jan 16, 2012 6:03 PM PST reply actions
Didn't think we'd get CP either
But wait
when you hear the Clippers, it’s not going to be a joke anymore. I can guarantee you that -BG32
No with Paul at least we had a bunch of trade assests
all we have to offer for Dwight is Jordan and Bledsoe. We don’t have any picks and only have small trade exception from the Paul deal.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Orlando should play hardball.
They should tell the Lakers that they want Gasol AND Bynum or no dice. If the Lakers say no, then Orlando should just take a team’s offer who is willing to “rent” him for one year. Personally, I think they can tell GSW, “Give me Curry, Lee, and 1 draft pick, and we have a deal!” I think GSW would be hesitant, but they would say yes. Then, if Dwight walks, Orlando isn’t hurt and the team that said, “I’ll take the rental!” is the one at fault. Plus, this is good, because with Pau and Bynum still on the books for the Lakers, there is no way they sign him unless they do a sign and trade with GSW, who I am guessing will be stubborn and demand a lot for him.
Or they could trade Dwight to us...
the Lakers get nothing, and everyone else is happy.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
can you imagine
how much we would kill the lakers by with
cp3/chauncey/caron/blake/howard
backed up by
bledsoe/foye/gomes/evans/??(FA/Cook/Trey/Jones)
Not Cook...
he would spot the Lakers 10 points just by stepping out on the court.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
Meh
The Clippers are quite content with the deal they made with said pick.
I was thinking, Dwight is a great player..but...
would I be mistaken to label him as more of a #2 for a title-contending team?
It seems like his skills enable him to be a guy you can trust to give you great defense/rebounding and good scoring. He can even give shooters wide open looks at 3’s often. However, given his free throw shooting, he’s pretty much a liability in a close game. Therefore you can’t really “go to him” (depend on him) in a close game; teams (especially now) just foul and force people to shoot free throws. Granted Golden State failed in their attempt when giving him 39 FT’s, but at the same time, I would think that the strategy works in a larger sample size.
With CP3 Blake and Dwight
There won’t be a close game
when you hear the Clippers, it’s not going to be a joke anymore. I can guarantee you that -BG32
this
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
his free throw shooting cant really be more of a liability than dj's is
"Fresh out the airport/ Fresh out the chair with the clippers/ Like Sean Livin' thinking, hmm/ I'm trying to get it like Sean get it" - Wale "Beautiful Bliss"
What other offers are there?
(For the purposes of this comparison, let’s assume the Clippers offer DJ, MoWill, EBled, and Foye.)
Lakers: Bynum/??? – Bynum is good, but the Magic aren’t high on him. If the Lakers throw in Pau, they’re simply gutting their roster and creating problems that Dwight won’t fix. If they throw in bench scrubs or low picks, their deal is less balanced and less attractive to Orlando.
Nets: Lopez/??? – Brook Lopez is currently hurt, which sinks his trade value as a central piece, and the rest of the team is playing so abysmally that they don’t really hold much trade value either. Mo is at least doing well as a sixth man, and Bledsoe can be sold based on potential. (DWill is out of the question.)
Warriors: Curry or Ellis/1st round pick – If Golden State is stupid enough to give up Curry or Ellis for a one-year rental, then let them do it. It basically eliminates a possible contender in the division for the foreseeable future once Dwight leaves.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
Footnote:
The Mavericks aren’t included on purpose, as most people assume they’re banking on Dwight not getting traded so that they could potentially sign both him and DWill in free agency.
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
Is Orlando really not high on Bynum? It would be crazy if the Clippers got Howard but I just don’t see them taking DJ, Bledsoe, and picks for the best center in the league.
Well, as Orlando's SB site notes,
They’re concerned/thinking that D.Jordan is only looking sexy right now cause he has C.Paul to inflate his value.
Can’t necessarily disagree with the theory that C.Paul does that for players.
CP3 also "inflated" Tyson Chandler's value...
and Chandler went on to help lead the Mavs to a ring and get a big contract with the Knicks, so…
Clippers // Chargers // Rays // Boise State
"The Lakers do win games. But things can change." - Blake Griffin
If we were to acquire Dwight, it's not going to be via a midseason trade.
We just have the assets at this point unless we want to give them Blake (which isn’t going to happen).
In the offseason, there’s a slight possibility. We could amnesty Mo and trade DJ (and possibly Bledsoe) for a signed Howard or we could shed DJ’s salary by trading him to a team that could absorb his contract. We would not really have much depth, but would be dependent on attracting minimum salary players.
If Dwight is adamant on joining the Clippers, then we pursue him in the offseason by freeing up space next summer. If he wants to be traded before the season ends, then we’ll just have stick with what we have (I’m very fine with that btw).
Proud member of Club FTR
NP. Just trying to earn my keep.
Proud member of Club FTR
by Lawler 4ever on Jan 17, 2012 12:35 AM PST up reply actions
i agree
midseason, there may just be too many other offers and more assets on the table, and dwight doesn’t have quite the leverage if the Clips were really his preferred destination. Of course this is all far-fetched, and I really don’t see it happening, but once the off season hits though, Dwight has all the power, since he can pretty much threaten to go to Dallas and leave Orlando with nothing. If he wanted to go to the nets, they still might have the most assets for Orlando’s sake, but again they’re not looking like quite the destination, especially if they have to give up some of their other key pieces in a S&T. An offer around Jordan and Bledsoe, maybe some picks and TPE or something, would definitely be a consolation prize for Orlando, but better than nothing, and would still leave the key pieces for the clips to be an ideal destination for Dwight. Of course the Lakers could do the same thing w/ Bynum (although they still seem hesitant for whatever reason), but again, Dwight has all the power in this scenario, with the option of signing somewhere outright, so it just comes down to where he’d want play, and orlando forced to take what they can get.
p.s. with regards to Bynum, no one ever mentions the fact that his contract expires in 2013, so if he’s really “as good as dwight” or whatever people are saying, if Orlando takes him on, there’s no reason for him not to just say he wants to play in NY too, and they’re back in the same situation next year, hahah.
Ramona also writes that DJ can't be traded w/o his permission until July 1 because he signed an offer sheet.
We only get Dwight as a FA or in a S&T after the season. My main concern is DJ knows his place as a Perk-type defender. Dwight is going to demand shots from Blake.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 16, 2012 8:11 PM PST reply actions
What???
DJ doesnt demand hits. He knows his job is to block and board. Dwight will disrupt this.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 16, 2012 8:25 PM PST up reply actions
Shots*
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 16, 2012 8:25 PM PST up reply actions
Further, he constantly complains about touches in ORL. He will here as well.
Dwight is an amazing player. If we get him sweet, but I’m still worried about the fit.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 16, 2012 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly!
All we need is a guy who can rebound, block shots, and defend the paint. Wait a minute, I think we already have one of those types of players, isn’t his name something like DEANDRE JORDAN? Plus, he’s only 23 years old! He will keep getting better.
we’re cheap, like to drink and are pissed off.
WHO WANTS A FREE SHARPIE?? -- Blake Griffin
by ClipperBEAST on Jan 16, 2012 8:34 PM PST up reply actions
+1
I like what we have, and the chemistry is clicking. Howard would change everything, maybe too much.
"i know huh........freakin clippers man.....its like a wild ride rooting for this team....gotta love em....(sometimes) lol" In GrIfFin We TrUsT
I love jordan
but vs the reigning 3 time DPOY? Yea Griffin and Howard seems a little like they might compete on the offensive side, but hopefully they do as like in Miami, and realize some of their individual stats might take a hit. Griffin is a good passer in the post, and definitely can’t double them both, so I think the coaching staff (ie. CP3) would figure it out.
Same kind of logic people were using regarding CP3 v. EJ
If you can get Dwight Howard for a package centered around DeAndre Jordan you do it every day of the week and 5 million times on Sunday. You really think having the best center in the league, 1 of the top 2 point guards, and 1 of the top 2 or 3 power forwards would be a problem of some sort? You think any of these guys are going to care how many shots they’re getting as they’re winning the title every year for the next 5 to 10 years?
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Here we go again
Looks like you and I are at odds once more.. lol. I’ll admit that I may have been too greedy with the whole hold on to EJ and still get CP3.
I’d love to have Dwight on the Clips, but I don’t see him being that much more of an improvement over DJ. The way I see it, Dwight and Blake will overlap each other on offense. Where Dwight helps the Clips is on defense, and it’s not like DJ is doing a terrible job anchoring the Clips’ defense. Aside from that, my biggest worry is team depth with three maximum contract guys. How will we be able to keep Caron, Chauncey, without having to go deep into luxury tax territory?
If I was Olshey (which fortunately I am not), my first order of business is to find a future SG to take over Chauncey when his time is up. After that, I will be looking to bolster the bench.
Well there's the crux of the matter right there
I’d love to have Dwight on the Clips, but I don’t see him being that much more of an improvement over DJ.
Dwight Howard is, pretty much by any standard you choose, one of the top 10 players in the league. DeAndre Jordan is … not. As good a defensive anchor as DJ has become, Howard is even better, and on the offensive end there’s no comparison. I can certainly see the logic in the salary constraints/luxury tax part of the argument, but if you can’t see that DH12 is a WAAAAAAAAAY better player than DJ, well, I don’t really know what to say about that.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Of course Dwight
Is a much better player than DJ. I’m not arguing that – I just don’t think he is a good fit with the Clippers. Until Griffin develops a reliable jumpshot (which is not that far actually), I still feel having Dwight and Griffin on the same team will create a redundancy in the Clips’ offense.
My ideal scenario would be to have DJ as backup PF/C. That way, DJ can sub in for Blake and allow for the offense to run through Dwight or DJ can sub in for Dwight and allow the offense to run through Blake. Unfortunately, the chance of that ideal scenario occurring is slim to none.
But there's still a logic gap in all this...
Howard and Paul are going to cost you around 20M a year, Griffin will command something a little lower… all starting in two years. That leaves you somewhere around 6 to 10 million a year for your other eleven guys. (I’m assuming Donald Sterling isn’t ever going to want to pay a very stiff luxury tax penalty, but maybe he drifts a little northward). The bet you’re making is that you can sign enough decent guys to fill out a roster. But two of your starters are going to be minimum guys… or guys close to minimum… or guys on cheap rookie deals.
I’m not really seeing how this gets you “winning the title every year for the next 5 to10 years”.
For the record I’m also not sure how the Mavs are planning on doing it either… except they’ve shown a willingness to dwell way up in the luxury tax in the past. But the new tax? It’s a LOT more expensive.
I see what you're saying, but
Every team in the league is going to be playing under the same rules, so all will be facing the same constraints if they don’t want to pay the tax. And I think that if you’ve got 3 of the 10-15 best players in the league, you’re going to be competitive with anyone. It’s basically the Miami model, and while they didn’t win last year’s title, they came damn close, and they are 1 of the 2 best teams again this year. And I’m hard pressed to believe that James/Wade/Bosh is any better than Howard/Paul/Griffin.
That said, I think this whole thing is pretty far-fetched, and thus not worth wasting too much more breath on. Bottom line for me: Salary cap be damned, the team that gets the best player in a trade pretty much always wins that trade, and Dwight Howard >>>>>>>> DeAndre Jordan.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Actually, the Miami payroll is in okay shape...
Because the three guys signed under the old CBA, they actually took LESS than what a max player can make today. Still… I don’t think Mickey Arison wants to pay out luxury tax in the new model either.
If we get Dwight Howard
That would be more star power on the Clippers than ever. Some of the older members here might get a heart attack.
Don't like it unless it's as an FA
We already gave up the Farm for CP3. We’d just mortgage more away if we go for Dwight in a trade. No way we make a package that is considered fair, unless Orlando is willing to give him up for nothing.
But if he does sign as a FA. I think our starting line up would look like this.
C – Jordan
PF- Howard
SF – Griffin
SG – Butler
PG- Paul
Yeah, you always start your best five even if they’re out of position.
LOL.
Can people stop dating the phrase “mortgaging the future” in relation to LAC?? BOS mortgaged Rhe future in 2097 for Allen and KG. NJN mortgaged the future fr Deron Williams in 2011. Chris Paul, AND Howard, are 26!!
They ARE the future.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 16, 2012 9:39 PM PST up reply actions
Using* the** 2007***
Damn typing on an iPad sucks.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 16, 2012 9:40 PM PST up reply actions
I didn't say future
I said we’d mortgage more away.
Like… cap space.
Continuity.
And besides…
I don’t think of Dwight as the same game changer as CP3, mostly because of the fact that CP3 doesn’t seem as well… egotistical as Howard does.
TNT postgame outside Staples. . .
Laker fans chant ‘Clippers Suck!’ and then ‘We Want Dwight’
In your dreams, Laker fans!
Also- surprised that Kenny was the one who thinks Clips are great team, Charles said he still think we are ‘2nd best team in building’, and that ‘Kevin Love is best PF in game’ (Shaq think Griff best PF). Its funny how even after all the Lob City hype, the Clippers are rarely mentioned as potential contenders anymore. Under the radar is probably better anyway.
Charles also think Nuggets and Blazers best in west.
by cassellmania on Jan 16, 2012 10:28 PM PST up reply actions
I miss the times when Lakers fans asshole-ness didn't involve the Clippers
Kinda irritating at times, but I’ll take it if means we have the better team.
No way for Lakers fans to avoid the Clippers,
So it’s understandable why they direct their stupidity towards the Clippers.
Brian Cook for Dwight Howard
make it happen NO!
/sarcasm
yes yes, it Dwight Howard…but i’m content with CP3-Blake-DJ for the long run
Ralph, "Last year so often with Blake Griffin you would see these things coming, with Paul, he's so crafty, all of a sudden boom there it is."
Agreed
we’re cheap, like to drink and are pissed off.
WHO WANTS A FREE SHARPIE?? -- Blake Griffin
by ClipperBEAST on Jan 17, 2012 6:49 AM PST up reply actions














