Clippers 91 - Dallas 89 - Chauncey's Game Winner Atones
With less than a minute to play and amid some late game heroics by Jason Terry, Chauncey Billups managed to help turn an almost sure Clipper win into a probable loss. Luckily, down only one point, he and the Los Angeles Clippers had one more shot with 4.2 seconds left after Terry just barely tipped an inbounds pass out of the hands of Mo Williams. Billups would inbound the ball with some difficulty, finally passing to Blake Griffin, who wisely gave it right back to Chauncey for a clean look at a three pointer. No matter how dejected a Clipper fan may have been a second before, the shot was so pure you could almost see the ball going in before the fact. Game to the Clippers...and that 10 game losing streak to the Dallas Mavericks coming in to tonight's game, GONE.
It had to be of little surprise that the Clippers were struggling early on in rebounding the ball, and more than a little concerning that Dallas would go on to win the possession battle and use their experience to grind this out, while taking advantage of the absence of Chris Paul, and the Clippers overall fatigue. After all, this was about as comfortable as Dallas could be in LA, after an easy win over Sacramento on Saturday, and with days off before and between the Laker game on Monday and tonight's game. It was also as exhausted as the Clippers could expect to be at home, after a pretty grueling MLK day win over the Nets on Monday, and a quick trip to play the Jazz in Salt Lake City yesterday.
Clearly, Mo Williams changed this negative momentum when he came off the bench with about 6:30 left in the first quarter. He went on to have a first half that has to be some kind of record for a Clipper bench player, scoring 18 points on 7 of 7 shooting. Hitting your first 7 shots, including two three pointers and free throws will do wonders for your team, and if you had to point to one thing that won this game, it was Mo's shooting and overall play. Don't mind the +/- stat line of -6 he acquired tonight, as he was mostly playing with the 2nd unit (names need not be mentioned). Going back to last year's trade, Mo's shooting abilities and true shooting %'s playing alongside LeBron really jumped off the page, and tonight we got a sense of how that could turn into wins, even off the bench. It should also be said, however, that Mo's defensive abilities could also have been somewhat masked against an aging Dallas back-court.
In continuing with the theme of major offense coming from unlikely places, you had to love the points put up by DeAndre Jordan and the way Williams, Foye, and Blake looked for him in this game. He was 9 of 13 from the field tonight, and could this have been a record for most non-dunk makes for DJ? There have been a few similar shooting stat lines put up by DeAndre in his career, but aside from his career high against the Lakers his rookie year, where he made 11 field goals, 9 FGM ties for his career second best, which he's done once in each of the last two years. This was also his fifth career game with 19 or more points scored. Bottom line, if DJ could be incorporated into the offense half this well going forward, it would make us that much more efficient, and hold defenses more accountable. On the minus side of the ledger, were DJ's 3 defensive rebounds, though he may have more than made up for this with 6 offensive boards, and 5 blocks. Overall, encouraging stuff from camp DJ, and I thought he had one of the big plays of the game when he ripped a rebound from Dirk Nowitzki with 21 seconds left and forced a jump ball which he controlled, and where the game should've ended. Unfortunately, Billups lost the ball out of bounds, with the help of the refs not seeing fit to call a foul.
Blake Griffin had his second bad shooting night in a row (6 for 15), and his worst game of the season from the free throw line (2 for 8), but with nearly 40 minutes played against the Nets Monday, it's a good thing Vinny held him to 27 last night because we needed him for all 38 + tonight. Credit to him for fighting harder on the boards (he claimed 17), moving the ball well (7 assists), and making a couple of big shots down the stretch to help notch a big win. The free throw shooting unfortunately, remains a big problem on a lot of levels, and no doubt it needs to get significantly better.
Perhaps more than anything tonight, we saw the good and bad of Chauncey Billups. It's not entirely clear how healthy he is at this point, but against the Nets it seemed like he was playing at about 70% strength or even less at times. If you were watching the ESPN telecast tonight, you might have heard Hubie Brown describe Chauncey's current play as in almost "slow motion" compared to earlier in his career. Hopefully some of this can be attributed to minor injuries he's battling, but it should be pointed out that his game isn't so much PG or SG right now, but somewhere between as a combo guard. We definitely like him taking clean three pointer's, which is what helped him avoid being the goat of this game. Where he seems to struggle is in forcing a move to one side and continuing on with the move no matter how bad of a shot he winds up with. This usually results in a fade-away or some other tough shot, which we can file under shot selection. After his turnover that lead to Terry's first three pointer of the last minute, we saw him force one of these shots on the next possession, helping lead to Terry's second three. Overall, it is or should be an asset to have a guy like Billups who can handle the ball as a shooting guard, but without Chris Paul, we can see how relying on his play-making can be problematic at times, and in looking at his assist to turnover ratio over his last 82 games, the number 2.18 tells you what you need to know.
In looking at the Mavericks tonight, I thought they played a decent game, and of course could've easily ended up winning. After their sluggish start to the season, they went on to run off wins against weaker teams, but that's what good teams do. They'll get Utah next in Utah, and leave Los Angeles 0-2, but they were a coin flip away from winning both games against two tough teams at home. Lamar Odom will no doubt continue to improve and work himself into their flow of things, but what caught my eye was their platoon at center with Brendan Haywood and Ian Mahinmi. Sure, there's a drop off from Tyson Chandler, but you could see where this duo could outperform expectations.
An interesting factor coming into this game was how tired would we be? At least a few of us have guessed, including one Steve Perrin, that maybe a good plan all along was to punt the game in Utah, especially given our long running history of futility playing in the high altitude of Salt Lake City and with it being in the middle of three games in three days. As it turns out, losing in a blowout last night was likely a good thing, or at least better than a close loss, with our starters logging heavy minutes. You have to believe that the extra rest for guys like Blake Griffin went a long way towards pulling out this win. One player who appeared to be most affected by fatigue tonight was Caron Butler, and it says something that we got this win without CP3 and without much production from Butler. It may also say something about VDN's reluctance to play Ryan Gomes any more than he has to.
Looking back, the Clippers have just played a challenging batch of six games, which could more easily be broken down into two sets of three, and they've impressively come out winners in both. The first three were a big test among three of the league's best teams in Portland, Miami, and the Los Angeles Lakers. The second, a different kind of challenge, facing the first set of back to back to back games without Chris Paul, and without Mo Williams for the first two games. While the wins against Miami and the Lakers were more exciting, the wins against New Jersey and Dallas were just as important moving forward. The Clippers are now 7-1 at home, and 1-3 on the road, and while it's great to see us build on what was already a pretty good strength in protecting our home court, the question of how good this team can be will likely be answered on the road, and we'll look for that in February.
Check Mavs Money Ball for the visitor's perspective, though I can tell you they're not very keen on LA or lob city right about now.
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that shot by Terry was bad defense.
that should have been better coached.
i'm sure they'll review that among a host of other bad rotations
…looking at you Blake Griffin! (but I love you anyway….)
We need Bill Walton back: "Where would the LA Clippers franchise be without Sean Rooks? Bo Outlaw might be the best pick up of the off season.
THROW IT DOWN BIG MAN...THROW IT DOWN"
___________
Follow @manlinessprime
I think that was more DJ's fault.
Formerly Newtybar. Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
by Newton Pham on Jan 18, 2012 11:25 PM PST up reply actions
People are forgetting
DJ Is still young..he has much to learn. Him and Blake
by JJClipperfan on Jan 18, 2012 11:31 PM PST up reply actions
But he knows better
Maybe guys weren’t speaking up on defense but he’s not, nor should he, get a pass because he’s young. It’s his 4th season.
by dulciusXasperis on Jan 19, 2012 8:36 AM PST up reply actions
the clips need to
practice some fundamental defensive concepts. If Mo wasn’t fighting over the screen to cover the shooter, then DJ needs to stay on the shooter.
by hadouken! on Jan 18, 2012 11:17 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Not sure it was a matter of coaching
Just a brain fart by DeAndre. Mo got wiped out by 2 screeners and couldn’t get back to Terry. DJ briefly showed but then ran away without looking to see if Mo had recovered, leaving Terry all alone. You could tell by Mo’s reaction that DJ had screwed the pooch.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
this
young players its going to take time for them to develop
by JJClipperfan on Jan 18, 2012 11:31 PM PST up reply actions
I don't buy this excuse anymore
I love DJ but he really messed this play up. And he may be young but he’s not inexperienced. This is his 4th year in the league. He’s played in over 200 games and 4000 minutes. A simple screen at the top of the key shouldn’t be that hard to defend. That said I have to wonder what DJ was thinking. It’s not like he took a couple of steps and they realized he messed up and tried to recover. He left Terry and immediately went to the rim for the rebound. Maybe he was expecting rotation from the back side.
The Clippers defense is truly upsetting. Especially Blake. He has no confidence on the defensive end. We all believe Blake can evidently be a solid defender once he learns how to play it. But will he really. There are plenty of players who never became good defenders (see Amare) Maybe instead of learning to play defense we need someone to TEACH them how to play. No more learning from mistakes. They have to be prepared to prevent the mistakes before they happen.
Just being nit-picky. Still a great win!!
you can tell a player what to do all you want
in the end he has to be the one to make the right decisions in crunch time. As I have said before with more experience he will get better…yes he has been in the league 4 years but that doesnt change the fact he is still young and very prone to making mistakes. Fact or fiction, DJ has made fairly major strides on the defensive end since his rookie year. I tend to believe that is a fact. Yes he still makes mistakes and I am sure the coaching staff will have a talk with him about it.
by JJClipperfan on Jan 19, 2012 6:51 AM PST up reply actions
Young and makes mistakes
I agree that DJ still makes alot of mistakes but I think its still from lack of experience and poor coaching, not his age. If DJ had played 200 games and 4000 minutes but was 26 instead of 23, you think its less likely he makes that play? I absolutely agree that DJ has made great strides on defense but it has been gradual. With a better defensive coach DJ could become exceptional quickly. I don’t know what DJ was thinking on that play but he learned a very hard lesson. I’d like DJ to learn those on the practice court first and not during the game.
yup
Clearly the assignment was for DJ to stay – sometimes you help and recover – up three with a dangerous shooter behind the three point line is NOT one of them. Mo was behind himself when he saw what DJ did. Heck, I was beside myself.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 19, 2012 12:19 AM PST up reply actions
Can't blame the coaches on that one
Bad DJ!!
Sorry to go all punctuation Nazi on you right out of the gate, but...
there’s a rather glaring mistake in the headline. The man’s last name is Billups, so the possessive form has to be either Billups’ (if you favor AP Style) or Billups’s (if you go by the Chicago Manual). The way you have it implies that his last name is Billup.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
It may look weird, but it's actually more grammatically correct
The possessive form of all other singular words is created by adding “’s.” Why wouldn’t you use the “’s” just because the singular word in question happens to end in an “s”? (Yes, I’m a professional word nerd. Sorry. But we magazine folk tend to think that the newspaper bastardization you favor is just lazy.)
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
+1 for the oxford comma
And for a sports blog where the posters are smart enough to know what the hell an oxford comma is.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
I love the oxford comma
And I want to kick people in the face for not using it. It just looks wrong!
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Excuse my ignorance
but what is an oxford comma, I looked it up but I didn’t understand the explanation.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
by bestclipfan on Jan 19, 2012 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
When listing 3 or more things in a sentence
you can either write “one, two and three” or “one, two, and three.” That last comma before before the “and” is known as the oxford comma.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
It's also known as an AWESOME comma.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
hmmm I always been taught to put a comma before the "and"
I mean I was only in high school a year ago and every teacher taught us to put comma before “and”. I do recall being told that is was optional once in in middle school but it was never brought up again.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Yeah same here
I have never heard the term but I have always put a comma before and.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
I think for a name that ends in "s" the 's choice is correct.
s’ should be reserved for the plural possessive.
Precisely
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
ok guys, we get it.
Formerly Newtybar. Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
It's never enough, Newty...
One of the beautiful things about ClipsNation are the excellent writers and “word-nerds” who are appear on this blog… is this phenomena exclusive to Clippermania? I don’t know. But I love discussions about punctuation and usage.
In a very early appearance here, I misused the phrase bon mots, confusing its meaning with the word “sobriquet”. I was tied to the grid and whipped for my gaffe. Clipper Steve (as he was known at the time), and Citizen Zhiv took turns with the lash.
I am the better man for it.
Well...
As boltsfan pointed out originally, AP style is Billups’ as opposed to Billups’s. This is likely a vestige of newspaper space considerations – column inches were significantly more precious than pixels in cyberspace. But we’re an AP shop here, so it’s Billups’.
I must admit to struggling with names ending in Z. Brook Lopez’ injury? Brook Lopez’s injury?
As for the fans of the Oxford comma, I have bad news. I have a 15 year old and a 12 year old and they are being taught in school to NEVER use a comma prior to a conjunction. I assume this is simply a matter of convenience — it is easier to teach that. Perhaps when they get to college they’ll be introduced to additional nuances, but if not the Oxford comma is on its way out.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 19, 2012 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
I happen to write for a living too and either way is acceptable
What’s important to me at least is that the reader understands what you are writing.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Sometimes...
But if I tell you “Chrisd’s fruit choices were apple, pomegranate and banana”, you might think the choices are “apple” or “pomegranate and banana”, when in fact the choices are “apple”,“pomegranate”, and “banana”.
my boss
thinks the oxford comma is wrong, but I think at some point, I was taught it was the "correct’ way to do it. I’m so used to it, that it just comes instinctively when I write, so I am always being told to go through entire reports and remove it, ugh.
I would quit
;-)
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Lopez's
My copy of the AP manual is about 15 years old, but back then, at least, it was z’s.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
2-1 in the b2b2b and 2-1 and last week
Not bad at all.
I feel like Chauncey threw that ball away in the last 10 seconds cause he knew he was gonna get a game winner ;)
protecting home court is good so far
just need to get better for the road.
We need Bill Walton back: "Where would the LA Clippers franchise be without Sean Rooks? Bo Outlaw might be the best pick up of the off season.
THROW IT DOWN BIG MAN...THROW IT DOWN"
___________
Follow @manlinessprime
Not exactly like we've blown a bunch of winnable road games
The only one we had, at Golden State, we won. The others were at Portland, at San Antonio, and at Utah in the middle of a b2b2b. Not too many teams come away from any of those place with a W.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
2-1 b2b2b WITHOUT CP3
definitely not bad.
Formerly Newtybar. Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
by Newton Pham on Jan 18, 2012 11:26 PM PST up reply actions
Particularly the last 3 w/o CP3
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Definitely
And the funny thing is, it actually should’ve been Dallas ball, since Mo fell on it before it actually hit out of bounds. But they had to give us that to make up for the ridiculous one on the other end, where Kidd grabs Chauncey’s arm, Mahinmi shoves him in the back, and somehow there’s no foul and it’s out on Chauncey.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Actually I'm sure the ball touched the line or out
before Billups touched it on his way down.
yep, it bounced out of bounds before Mo fell on it and the people in the first row.
and they fouled Chauncey when pushing him out of bounds earlier. i’m all for instant replay, but if you can’t use it see a foul called but to only see who touched it out of bounds then i dunno.
this
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
I very strongly agree
For example, if you do a replay and you can see that Terry clearly karate-chops Billups’ hand, but that this caused Billups’s hand to be the last thing to touch the ball, is it really fair to make it Dallas’s’s ball?
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
you mean " Dallas' "?
hahahah
"After the first six minutes I was heavily winded"-Andrew Bynum
I don't know about you guys...
But it feels like the officiating has been awfully terrible this year. How there wasn’t a foul call on Chauncey during that possession is just ridiculous. Dude got molested.
hey rob how did you know peyton is not coming back?
brijo1
by ThaFoX on Jan 19, 2012 12:59 AM PST via Android app up reply actions
Rob knows all.
Formerly Newtybar. Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
Adam Silver was in the stand
The NBA guy ranks second to Commissioner Stern, he should write a report to the competition department about the refs were making bad calls.
Patriots, Clippers, Angels fan since 1980
by Pats fan in CA on Jan 19, 2012 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
that first espn replay made it look like it was off mo
one of the most depressing moments ive had in 2012
followed by one of the most euphoric moments
The long review gave the Clips a free TO
It gave them a long time to draw up Billups’s 3 when they didn’t have any full TOs left.
I almost think refs intentionally dragged it out to throw the Clips a bone knowing that they blew the foul call on the previous replay
Interesting!!
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
shap's few points
welcome to shap’s few points!!! i usually do this anyways, but im using my name in possession so it sounds ritzy as heck.
so, this was a great game, yet frustrating game. watched half of it while running on an elliptical at my gym, probably a bad move. i was cursing and shaking my head and pointing to where clippers needed to be with like 3 people on each side wondering if i was crazy. most of second half i saw at home, few points…
-this is going to upset many but… blake griffin makes me extremely nervous in half court offense. even when he made that huge shot, blake simply isn’t a money half court player yet. there’s no doubt i want the ball in paul’s hands to close every game as long as he’s playing. griffin still gets by mostly on his absurd athleticism, the rest of his game is slowly coming along but he’s still more of a work in progress than many of us would like to admit.
-quietest game of butler’s clipper career, but he was locked up by a player who no doubt knew his game very well being his teammate and is simply a good defender in his own right. still, butler did a good job not forcing the issue simply because it’s a grudge game of sorts for him.
-that last billups shot was a good play, but man chauncey drives me nuts with some of the awful shots he takes. if u take away that finals performance of is, he can come off more as an irrational confidence guy that some world class clutch player. still, at this point, with that roster, probably no one else i want shooting a good look with little time left. problem with chauncey is he takes so many bad shots with lots of time left.
-mo was great. as irritating as he can be because of his lack of pg instincts, he’s one of the few players that can take a player off the dribble on this team.
-liked what foye did today, got a good chunk of penetration and set up dj a few times.
-hubie said dj is getting better and better, and while im glad he’s getting to is spots more frequently, i think it’s more of a case of his teammates knowing where he is more often.
-reggie evans has been wonderful, loved that reggie chant i heard in the 3rd
oh, and the last couple of possessions that led to terry threes
atrociousthrees atrocious. billups should be glad he made that shot because he was terrible on those possessions
also what a luxury it is for the mavs to have the best half court offensive player in bball.. dirk’s presence even in the most of such a terrible game made me nervous simply because he can get his anywhere he wants and blake for some reason is biting on more and more pump fakes like he’s dj
I have to disagree with you on a few points
Butler shooting 1-12 seems like he was trying to force the issue a few times. Yes, he had some open looks that just didn’t fall, but also some not so open looks. He was better in the 4th down the stretch when he wasn’t shooting, but to me he got outplayed by Marion, especially when it comes to boxing out on rebounds, letting Marion get 6 offensive rebounds when Caron had 5 total.
Foye, I’ll agree was good when he was penetrating and passing the ball, but his shot selection wasn’t great. Nevermind that he was 2-10, they weren’t great choices.
Blake had an off night, i’m glad he made that basket towards the end. DJ had a great game but his defense was bad, especially at the end.
Mo was the player of the game and deserves JUMBACO’S for life.
missed the first quarter so I might've missed some of butler's forced shots
in general he took some desperation shots but he could’ve been more harmful down the stretch, had that huge pass to dj.
and it goes without saying that foye’s shot selection is generally bad, but i liked a good deal of what i saw from him tonight.
Butler looked tired
He spent most of the game sitting behind the 3pt line and even though Marion defended him, didn’t really look for his shot until the 3rd.
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
ironically
Butler’s only bucket of the night came on a jumper in transition. The Clippers had gotten a steal, and Butler was in position to fill a lane and get a layup, but he didn’t run – like, at all. He jogged up the court and got a trailer transition jumper. Yeah, I think he was tired.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
by Steve Perrin on Jan 19, 2012 12:25 AM PST up reply actions
38+29+36 minutes will do that to you
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
see a big bounce back game against the Raptors
I know we play the Wolves next but I see him putting up like 10-14 nothing huge but a strong contribution.
by KillaClip on Jan 19, 2012 8:48 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
This game isn't close with CP3
They need him back soon
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Buried the lede up above
That’s the biggest takeaway from this game I think, more or less. The Clippers hung in and won a (home) game against an elite opponent… without Chris Paul. That says so much about the team, and Billups, and Mo Williams, etc. Especially after being embarassed the night before. Obviously Mo and home cooking were the difference. More on this below, but winning a game like this without Paul is huge.
by citizen zhiv on Jan 19, 2012 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
the funny thing about mo was, he was in the minus column tonight. but I hate that whole plus minus thing anyway.
he was like -11
brijo1
by ThaFoX on Jan 19, 2012 1:04 AM PST via Android app up reply actions
+1
re Billups’ poor shot selection. Saw some stats somewhere that indicate his shot is actually not very near the end of games. The “Mr. Big Shot” nick name is more based on reputation than anything.
by hadouken! on Jan 18, 2012 11:42 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
well in the games this season of the Clips
he has made some big shots. It is also about confidence. About wanting to take the shot.
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 19, 2012 12:02 AM PST up reply actions
After the game winning shot last night
He is the hero now mr. big shot, no matter what he didn’t do well in the past.
Patriots, Clippers, Angels fan since 1980
by Pats fan in CA on Jan 19, 2012 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
Didn't have enough time for Foye
He did some good things, but dude is a low percentage chucker. He’ll make up for some of the bad shots, but definitely not all.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
Foye was passing like crazy
I loved it. Best I’ve ever seen him play as a Clipper, and I’m including those 20ppg nights in this.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
best moments* not best game
lol
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
after his airball
seems like he reigned back the shooting as was looking to pass most of the night thankfully, haha
I will now pray for 2 airballs from Foye in his opening minutes.
I will take 2 misses to ensure there won’t be 15 more misses following it haha.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
hoping caron gets back on track on friday. we should go 4-1 on the week. cant sleep on minny tho.
"Fresh out the airport/ Fresh out the chair with the clippers/ Like Sean Livin' thinking, hmm/ I'm trying to get it like Sean get it" - Wale "Beautiful Bliss"
hoping paul comes back for minny
sounds like he was close..
plus i want to see him live :)
wouldnt be surprised if he was held out until the Raptor game
Need some game time to get his legs before the Laker game.
by KillaClip on Jan 19, 2012 8:57 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Wow lighten up guys
this was a HUGE win against the defending champs who had all the rest in the world while the clips were coming in off two games in a row and missing their MVP. Was it pretty, no but the clippers came through even after the refs tried to give the game away (how the hell was Chauncey getting shoved out of bounds right after controlling the jump ball not a foul). Blake had an off game but he still managed to get 17 boards! And I haven’t even mentioned the huge shot Billups hit that showed that he is most definitely Mr.Big Shot.
The clippers get to celebrate this win for a couple days before taking on the Twolves hopefully with CP3 in the game. This was a great win, feel free to celebrate it guys.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
+1
2-1 on a b2b2b w/o CP3!
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
I don't see 10-4 as a longshot
Friday and Saturday seem like easy enough wins, especially with some rest. And hopefully Chris Paul
by Ricekrispy10 on Jan 19, 2012 12:01 AM PST up reply actions
Would be nice to have a 6 game cushion before insane 6 games we have after that -_-
by Ricekrispy10 on Jan 19, 2012 12:03 AM PST up reply actions
Bargnani has been injured and not playing
so hopefully he’ll be out when we play Toronto. Either way they don’t really scare me.
They played us tough last year without Bargnani
and beat us at their home.
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
i stand corrected
hopefully we’ll have CP3 for these games and then i won’t be worried.
Most important thing
Except for utah this team looks better after every game. Rebounding was a problem they picked it up. Compare our current defense with what we started with.
by arman martikian on Jan 18, 2012 11:59 PM PST via mobile reply actions
The only real worry I have for the team is actually Blake
It could be that with all of the new star power we are relying on him less, but he definitely does not seem to be as good a player as he was last year.
DJ looked great today, and it seems like Foye and Mo are particularly good at finding him.
he had an off night
and still had 17 rebounds and 7 assists. He finds a way to contribute almost every game.
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 19, 2012 12:04 AM PST up reply actions
and his passing out of double teams seem quite alright
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 19, 2012 12:07 AM PST up reply actions
this
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Re: Blake, you have to keep in mind. . .
He surprised the league last year with his all star level play as a rookie, this year teams are more aware and are doubling him, hard fouling his drives. The whole ‘Lob City’ hype has added to opposing teams desire to frustrate him. Even so, he has still been amazing, and will only get better.
by cassellmania on Jan 19, 2012 12:05 AM PST up reply actions
+1
He’ll figure out how to work through the hard fouls and get his touches down the stretch. the great part of this season is that you don’t need big games from Blake every night to win. He’s starting to pay more attention to defense and his boards are back up to where they were last year.
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
if he could become a decent FT shooter he'd be unstoppable
If it's negative I don't want to hear it eliminating playa haters with their evil spirits!
by Controversysells on Jan 19, 2012 12:11 AM PST up reply actions
I think it is a mental issue
he should get out of it somewhere down the line
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 19, 2012 12:13 AM PST up reply actions
most definatly because hes got a good mid range shoot
He’ll figure it out or fix it hopefully sooner rather then later
If it's negative I don't want to hear it eliminating playa haters with their evil spirits!
by Controversysells on Jan 19, 2012 12:15 AM PST up reply actions
I like Mike Smith's idea of taking a dribble or two
Blake just steps to the line and shoots. Seems a dribble or two would help his rhythm.
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
I never take a dribble at the line
I shot over 80 when I played but as they say different strokes for different folks
If it's negative I don't want to hear it eliminating playa haters with their evil spirits!
by Controversysells on Jan 19, 2012 12:19 AM PST up reply actions
I, unfortunately, have a routine that's similar to Kobe's
2 dribbles… spin the ball so it bounces back to me, and while it’s spinning I wipe my hands on my jersey… 2 more dribbles… shoot.
I wish I could change this, but I can’t.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
I hate playing against kids your age
You never get tired ever. WHAT THE HELL.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
ugh I'm not like them
I don’t stop, and I’m actually worn down… I know alot of guys who can play for two hours and it’s like nothing… I have to ice, wear braces… it’s a pain lol
my free throws
look like a combination between marion and noah, except with less success. Okay, I just plain suck at playing basketball, i’ll stick to watching.
He reminds me of Ken Norman. Ken had a good jump shot but was always a bad free throw shooter.
obviously some of the similarities end there but I was a fan of Ken “The Snake” Norman on the Clips.
Bruce Bowen could shoot that corner 3, but not make free throws...
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
noticed Dallas defending Blake with length and rotations of fresh defenders
Blake really needs to start hitting those fts or he’s going to continue to struggle
Stayed out of the GDT again...
Clips win again.
Can’t explain that.
[/bill Reilly]
Same goes for the Ducks and Anaheim Calling, lol.
First game at Staples this season.. What an amazing finish!
"look, you can find any coach you want, bring him in here and run the situation. But I don't think they are going to do as good a job as I do." -Mike Dunleavy Sr.
by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on Jan 19, 2012 12:48 AM PST reply actions
You definitely chose a good game to go to
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
I know! I got lucky, because my friend got tickets.. I can't afford the games, these days, unfortunately! :(
"look, you can find any coach you want, bring him in here and run the situation. But I don't think they are going to do as good a job as I do." -Mike Dunleavy Sr.
by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on Jan 19, 2012 7:37 PM PST up reply actions
Was it loud when Chauncey hit the winner?
Seemed like it on TV.
"Great Balls Of Fire, Reggie's Back!"
It was crazy loud, and crazy fun! Every Clippers fan in the arena was high-fiving, and screaming.. Great moment!
"look, you can find any coach you want, bring him in here and run the situation. But I don't think they are going to do as good a job as I do." -Mike Dunleavy Sr.
by CLiPPz WeRD 12 on Jan 19, 2012 7:38 PM PST up reply actions
A Few Points
First of all, GREAT WIN!
1) Poor officiating. Clearly, the Kidd reached in and fouled Billups after the jump ball. Bad call, almost cost us the game.
2) When we were up by 5 points under a minute left, Billups had the ball drove in and tried to no-look a pass to a cutting DJ, but Mavs stole and Terry hit the 3 to cut it to 2.
3) The rotation that consisted Evans, S. Jones, Gomes, Foye, Mo…PLEASE NEVER AGAIN.
4) Mo. WOW. Love the fire, love his energy, and love his scoring.
5) Mr. Big Shot. Great play from the timeout.
Overall, great win. I think we had it in the bag, when we were up by 5 with under a minute. Refs had a couple bad calls, but I guess karma worked in our favor. Rest up and lets get ready for the T’Wolves. GO CLIPPERS!
funny that it really wasn't a time out
and that the refs AGAIN needed a replay allowed to draw up a particularly impressive play, which I was totally not expecting from Vinny.
I agree on that lineup, I was just like omg, who the hell is on the floor. I think Mo hit at least 2 shots as soon as that lineup was put in, so it was hard to really hate it, but man, they could almost literally triple team Mo, and double team foye.
Great point about no timeout
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Billups also said VDN drew up a good play against NJ
I guess it also help to have players with experience in these situations
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 19, 2012 7:39 AM PST up reply actions
Jury is still out on VDN but if players like Billups are praising the guy . . .
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
was watching hubie
So i guess i’ll watch the replay of the game on FSPT to hear MILPH.
so was i
but taped milph to relive
becoming a bit of the norm
Great win by the Clippers
Mo Williams was just absolutely beasting tonight for you guys, you’ll be balling when CP3 returns… Oddly enough this game made me think, does anyone here entertain a Mo Williams trade if it gets you a backup big man? I’m sure a few teams would be interested…
"If you're a basketball player, you've got to shoot" - Oscar Robertson
Which big men do you think would be available?
"If you're a basketball player, you've got to shoot" - Oscar Robertson
by Funkensteinn on Jan 19, 2012 1:57 AM PST up reply actions
thats the tricky part
almost sure the clips have put mo’s name out there, but finding a good match might be tough
before the season started i was pretty interested in one of the excess utah bigs, almost all of those guys (then included okur) wouldve been an interesting fit
one nice competent frontcourt scorer would do wonders for this bench. mo has been fantastic but once ebled comes back, we’ll be a little too deep with these combo guards
That's what we've been debating
we need to find a team who needs a starting PG and has a big(center sized) to spare. We can’t get too good of a big, who will be upset coming off the bench. But there’s no point in trading Mo for a scrub and helping a potential playoff opponent.
Yeah, not sure there is a match for a center
I honestly don’t mind using Reggie/Jones as the backups at C right now, and am hopeful that Thompkins/Gomes can help spell Blake.
What I’d really be interested in trading Mo for is that perimeter defender who could back up both SG and SF. If we can’t get that, let’s just keep him, and maybe play Chauncey a little less to keep him fresh.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
because we need another guard?
we have 96 minutes for guards. The point of trading mo would be to DUMP a guard, not acquire another one to worsen our logjam! I think that we let FOye walk this summer, and THEN see about swapping Billups/Bledsoe/Williams for a bigger SG
SG/SF is to limit minutes to Foye/Gomes
We’ve, for the time being gotten rid of Brian Cook.
If we could do the same with Foye/Gomes and get someone who can defend, I think that’d be a big plus.
As for the guard minutes, definitely have to look at trading Bledsoe once he gets healthy, but overall we’re in a good position to wait and see. We can move our trade assets when our needs get more defined. Right now, and probably as long as Reggie Evans is healthy, our bigs are surviving.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
After seeing him start
It’s definitely a lot easier to see him back up the 3.
However, how solid are those knees Butler’s playing on?
Probably best to stay flexible, but gun to my head i’m just as concerned about our wings as our bigs.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
mo also plays his share of 2
getting another swing defender would be nice but for now having caron as our stopper of sorts and playing team D is ok, not as pressing as getting another big. maybe leslie can even be a tony allen type many of us envision him to be
Leslie could be the key
For such a veteran team with these kind of aspirations though, just don’t see it.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
I don't see that happening this season anyway
in the end he is a second round project type of player. Not many of them succeed (DJ being an exception).
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 19, 2012 2:31 AM PST up reply actions
Right, he looks far from being ready
Thompkins could be a different story though, hope he can help Blake get some more rest and back up effectively as the season goes on.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
I'm not sure it is a different story for this season
just that we have less depth in the front court.
In a way he is the opposite of Leslie: better skills, less athleticism. My guess: lower ceiling and higher floor then Leslie.
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 19, 2012 2:36 AM PST up reply actions
Willie Warren looked much more ready than Leslie.
WW was very comfortable out there.
Formerly Newtybar. Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
I gotta wonder why he never got PT
Something he did to piss off The Vin.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
I remember an interview with VDN
and they asked about WW and he answered something like: “very raw”. The body language of VDN was very negative.
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 19, 2012 9:21 PM PST up reply actions
I liked willie when he played
seemed in control. So far surprised leslie and fortson made it over him. Fortson kinda reminds me of mike taylor, although I haven’t seen how he shoots much. He did make a 3 in salt lake though.
Come on
you can’t be serious. If leslie was “the key” he would have played this season. The only game where he saw real time was when VDN abandoned ship in Utah. Sure, he’s athletic, but the key? Even if he ever becomes a roation player, it’s a ways off.
Do you only read headlines?
Just speaking of perimeter defense off the bench, which you’re not trying to address. Will Leslie contribute at all? Probably not. Let’s move on.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
by ghost_ride on Jan 19, 2012 3:14 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Not going to start an argument
Sorry if I came off as a litte sharp. I just get kind of annoyed by people’s tendency to glorify Solomon, Trey, and Travis.
It's cool
I was a little surprised by your passion on the topic. It’s funny that now with our roster better than ever, there’s still plenty of room for difference of opinion.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
by ghost_ride on Jan 19, 2012 10:16 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Seems like the less minutes a bench player plays...
….the more he gets talked about on this blog.
problem is when Bledsoe comes back where does he get minutes
If we play a Mo/Bledsoe back court (since Bledsoe did play SG in college), that makes us a really small back court with both at 6’1".
We need 2 pieces, a taller wing (SG/SF) and a front court big that can score. JR Smith and Kenyon Martin come to mind as the type of players we need, but not the quality of character guys that I’d want.
Taller or Better works
Take the Blazers…Gerald Wallace, Aldridge, Matthews, Batum, Crawford…
They’re so stacked at the 2/3/4 it sickens me
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
yes but both Wallace and Batum
will require a new contract at the end of the season. Hard to imagine they keep both.
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 19, 2012 2:34 AM PST up reply actions
I'd keep Bledsoe
his rookie deal will do wonders to the cap situation. I’d wait on Williams/Billups and keep one of them at the end of the season.
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 19, 2012 2:33 AM PST up reply actions
where Billups signs his probable last contract may not be up to us next year
also not sure, but I think Mo agreed to opt in to his final year next year when we traded Baron for him. If not, then we could lose both.
I think Mo is still signed for an extra year
But if everything goes well Billups might be interested to stay. Keeping both Mo and Chauncey doesn’t seem feasible. So either you keep Mo and let Billups walk, or you resign Billups and trade Mo.
A lot will depend on how well things go for the rest of the season.
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 19, 2012 2:51 AM PST up reply actions
Mo has a player option for next year
I’m just not sure if he already picked it up when we traded for him, like CP3 did, cause on the hoopshype salary page it doesn’t say so.
I think you are right
it is difficult to gauge if Mo will exercise the option or not. Perhaps to sign a multi year deal? I don’t think he’ll make 8.5M a year in his new contract but something like 6 or 7 a year for 2 or 3 year seems possible.
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 19, 2012 3:00 AM PST up reply actions
Foye will be limited by Bledose/Williams
Gomes and Foye are adaquete backups. And Cook is only not playing because he is hurt. You can bet that when he is healthy he will be playing those 5-8 mpg.
We probably will see some Cook
That may be on VDN though, as I’m pretty sure most of us feel that Cook being out is a good thing.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
by ghost_ride on Jan 19, 2012 3:24 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I hate cook
but Cook has proven that he can catch fire and swing a game. Trey has only proven that he can shoot similarly to Cook when Brian is cold.
size
We could use another guard if that guard is big enough to guard Durant/LeBron/Kobe/Erik O.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
You can't guard Erik O
you just hope he doesn’t feel like playing that day.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
I just stand there in awe, Mike and Ralph both texting me how lucky I am, as he dribbles by and dunks it.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
not enough muscles
ps. I miss thunder, stupid OKC
it should stop Mo should not be traded
Get a good look of Bledsoe and Mo and then add a big man with jumper and post moves
by KillaClip on Jan 19, 2012 9:01 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Chris Kaman
"After the first six minutes I was heavily winded"-Andrew Bynum
Rasheed if in shape
Don’t need an elite or even all star caliber but just enough talent to be a role player
by KillaClip on Jan 19, 2012 12:22 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
ike wasn't too bad
seemed like he could score if asked in the post. Him and Rhino both have more offense than anyone on the bench now.
Mo Gotti
I have to admit I was wrong about Mo. I thought he would struggle as a 6th man but he has really flourished with it. Its the absolute perfect role for him on this team. I’m still not opposed to the Clippers trading him but it can’t be for just another player. You have to get at least 2 decent role players for Mo. Maybe a solid back-up big and a wing defender who can score a little. Anything less then that will hurt the 2nd unit.
Well Said
Think that’s really the key, and I don’t think we’ll have to worry about getting just another player back if we do trade him.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
Blake's season is less than last years?
Blake is 8th in the league in scoring and 4th in rebounding. Seems better to me.
We need the SG/sf player backing up Butler and helping Mo when there is a big SG and sf we are going against. And a scoring big off the bench. Foye is the tradable asset for one of those pieces. So let him “peacock” it and showcase his stuff….a little.
Energy * Focus * No Excuses
"For [Griffin] getting in the way of Andre Miller’s 40 yard dash?" -S. Perrin
by Takebb909 on Jan 19, 2012 8:03 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Year over Year
PER:
2012: 22.0
2011: 21.9
That’s statistically insignificant
WP48
2012: 0.159*
2011: 0.148
So, actually an improvement from last year. I think it may just be a perception thing. Some of the stuff BG is screwing up on is more noticeable (missing free throws) and these games matter more than last year. Also, coming off rookie of the year and an all-star team appearance, so some might think he’s already a superstar in the NBA and his WP48 doesn’t suggest that yet (he’s merely very good)
Note*- I calculated the WP48 for 2012 myself, so it might conflict with numbers you see elsewhere
by Michael White on Jan 19, 2012 8:11 AM PST up reply actions
Updated daily WP
MW, not sure if you have this but the WOW group has their daily WP at www.thenbageek.com They have Blake’s WP at 0.133 after 12 games. Its pretty cool that your calculating WP48 yourself. I can’t even imagine trying to put that together.
BTW – check out Mo Will 0.162 easily the best of his career. He’s killing it this year. Hope it continues.
I didn’t think nba geek was updating daily. That’s why I started doing it myself. The site was 2 games behind the last time I checked it out.
If they’re staying up to date that’ll save me some time, though I will occasionally update it after the game just for my own curiousity.
by Michael White on Jan 19, 2012 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
Also, I'm shortcutting the WP48 figures a bit
Using this formula.
Win Score = PTS + STL + ORB + 0.5*DRB + 0.5*AST + 0.5*BLK – TOV – FGA – 0.5*FTA – 0.5*PF
For 2010-11, the position averages for Win Score per 48 minutes are as follows: 5) Centers: 7.846 4) Power Forwards: 6.956 3) Small Forwards: 4.835 2)Shooting Guards: 4.104 1)Point Guards: 4.851
1) Calculate Win Score per 48 minutes for the player. 2) Subtract the position average noted above and add back in 5.729 (the overall average). This gives you Relative Win Score per 48 minutes. 3)Estimate WP48 with the following formula: -0.07898 + 0.031888*Relative Win Score per 48 minutes
It took a little while to set up the Excel worksheet, but now that I have it, it doesn’t take too long to calculate the WP48 for a player (season or game.)
by Michael White on Jan 19, 2012 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
Good Stuff
WP definitely seems to get complicated once you try to figure in position assignments and their team defense metric. I know Berri changed the WP calculation this summer and de-valued rebounds some. I wonder if they have that new formula posted with that change?
I always thought it would be cool to have the WP formula on a spreadsheet and just be able to plug in numbers. For example: What would Eric Gordon’s WP48 be if he was an average rebounder? What stats would EJ have to put up to be a 0.200 WP48 player with his poor rebounding? What if he had a season where he shot 40% from 3 and 85% from the line? What would Griffin’s WP48 be if he was a 75% foul shooter?
You know, fun nerdy stat stuff like that.
He devalued defensive rebounds. As you can see from the formula above (which was released after the formula tweak,) ORebs are taken at face value while DRebs are taken at 50% which is supposed to account for rebouding cannibalization. It actually hurt Blake year over year and improved Eric Gordon’s WP48.
I’d be happy to email you the spreadsheet. It wouldn’t hurt to have a second set of eyes check my formulas.
by Michael White on Jan 19, 2012 12:07 PM PST up reply actions
Adjustments:
Pre adjustment WP48
Griffin: 0.212
Gordon: 0.105
Post adjustment WP48
Griffin: 0.148
Gordon: 0.110
Gordon’s change is small, but Griffin’s is enormous.
by Michael White on Jan 19, 2012 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
Interesting...
Very interesting. It’s nice to see that Berri isn’t completely set in his ways about his weighting and that he’s willing to adjust it if he is presented with enough reason to do so. PER has its own problems, but I don’t know if Hollinger has ever been willing to adjust the calculation.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Really?
I’m assuming they tweak. Especially since they’re single-digit appraisals. Never perfect and so complex. But maybe PER has become so universal that he can’t tweak.
last sentence
Yeah, I think that’s probably why he’s stuck… since ESPN and the NBA have used PER as synonymous with “efficiency,” it puts Hollinger in a tough spot. Even if he disagrees with his own metric, he can’t change it because it’s now set in stone. Thus, he’s forced to act like he agrees, or at least keep his mouth shut when he doesn’t agree.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
and he is quite rigid in his analysis
I mean Craig Smith has his uses but also his very obvious weaknesses. And we need Reggie Evans a lot more then Craig Smith on this moment.
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 19, 2012 9:23 PM PST up reply actions
We could use both
I don’t see how Rhino isn’t an upgrade over Thompkins and Cookie.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 10:10 PM PST up reply actions
It would also have tied up our last roster spot
but that wasn’t the point. He dismisses Reggie because his poor PER and says the Clips were stupid not to resign Smith who has a very high PER for an end of the bench guy.
I think the FO is looking to trade for a serviceable frontcourt backup and that’s why they haven’t signed Smith or Diogu.
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 20, 2012 12:29 AM PST up reply actions
Thanks, babe.
This is very helpful.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Foye is not a trade asset
Unless a team just wants to take $4mill off it’s cap for next year, but that will only happen if the Clips take on more salary in return. The Clips might as well keep Foye and in the offeseason, he will come off the books. Wil the Clips get someone better and younger than Foye via trade? Likely no.
The only true trade assets on the team are MO and Bledsoe. Bledsoe is still untradeable due to his not returning from injury yet. Mo has obvious skills, but he might be btr off served on the Clips, so the Clips can limit Billups to around 30 min a nite.
"After the first six minutes I was heavily winded"-Andrew Bynum
Why does the player in exchange for Foye need to be better and younger? I’d settle for just better.
by Michael White on Jan 19, 2012 9:45 AM PST up reply actions
I actually thought about that before writing
It would be nice to get someone younger…after all, the Starting SG is Billups and he’s no spring chicken. Granted the team is on a Win-Now mode, but some young legs to change the pace would help. I guess Bledsoe will provide it.
"After the first six minutes I was heavily winded"-Andrew Bynum
i would bank big money Mo and Bled will work
Bledsoe is a aggressive defender and a nice weak side blocker.
by KillaClip on Jan 19, 2012 10:12 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
both are 6'1"
that’s a really small back court to bank big money on
Bledsoe does make up a lot with his athleticism
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 19, 2012 9:24 PM PST up reply actions
randy foye and a second for Franciso Garcia
Kings get cap flexibility after the season we get a big SG/SF off the bench who can step in for Gomes if slacking or to slide Gomes to the 4 next to Reggie.
by KillaClip on Jan 19, 2012 10:10 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
would a team trade for foye...
For a guy like a recovering Malcom Lee out of UCLA
Energy * Focus * No Excuses
"For [Griffin] getting in the way of Andre Miller’s 40 yard dash?" -S. Perrin
by Takebb909 on Jan 19, 2012 11:26 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
This is much pretty much it
Foye can be exchanged for a longer contract of a better (not necessarily younger) player from a team that has realized this isn’t their year.
I was hoping the Magic would implode but they haven’t so Redick probably isn’t available.
Would this work?
Or ? Clips would have to throw in cash to offset Gomes’s additional year.
Foye for Turiaf? Maybe a 2nd round pick as a sweetener
Foye for Mike Miller would be a great move. Heat don’t need Miller as much with Battier and James Jones around. But they also don’t need to make any cap clearing trades yet unless its for a solid big.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 11:23 AM PST up reply actions
Yah Miller tweaked his ankle on his first game back
Can’t count on him and he’s overpriced
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Yea
left out how he went 6-6 on shooting.
And he’s not overpriced at 5.8m a year. You do realize we are paying Foye 4.25 million and Gomes 4 million a year right?
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
Foye comes off the books this year
He can also play PG. I mentioned on a previous thread I think his pay and length of contract not overpaid or underpaid, but about average for a Vet.
Mike Miller’s not reliable and overpaid, not to mention his on the books another few yrs. If he was adequate, they wouldn’t have signed Battier this year.
"After the first six minutes I was heavily winded"-Andrew Bynum
They signed Battier
because he’s he was a bargain for the mini-MLE. Just like the Clips signed Billups, if you can get good players at a discount you take it.
And Miller is way better than Foye for only a small (by NBA standards) difference in salary.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
Yes but that doesn't take away the fact he has been injured for the past season
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 19, 2012 9:26 PM PST up reply actions
He was healthy when they signed him
that’s all you can really hope for. After that its just chance.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
Miller wouldn't have signed for us at that price
we talked to the guy and he basically said: “no thanks, but you should get that Gomes guy.”
I would say that is a major reason not want Miller =)
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 20, 2012 12:32 AM PST up reply actions
Actually
he sold the Clippers on Randy Foye. Yea I hate Miller now that I think about it.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 20, 2012 2:02 AM PST up reply actions
Of course it has been established that
Foye is no worse than most at his level as backup by PER. your position on this isn’t rational.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
and Foye's overpaid
his counterpart last night Delonte West is much cheaper (1.2 million) and a better player. You can get good bench players for minimum deals. Heck Clips have one in Reggie Evans.
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by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 2:11 PM PST up reply actions
yes because they are an up and coming team
let’s be honest: before Griff we needed to overpay to get anyone to come here. In the off-season we can replace Foye’s production with a West like signing.
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 19, 2012 9:28 PM PST up reply actions
yes, and you do realize that (1) Miller has a five year deal and (2) didn't play last year and played one game so far this year
He was almost amnestied. What a waste of money.
And yet you are still pushing him for the Clippers.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
He played last year
he has 4 years left on his deal.
They considered amnestying him not because he’s not good but because they thought they needed to get below the cap so they could sign Dalembert.
He’s actually a much better fit than Caron for the Clippers starting 5.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
I'd say Caron is fitting nicely with the starting 5 right now.
Both have injury history, but for now one is playing the whole season while the other isn’t. Plus I think Caron’s deal is better since it’s 1 year less.
Caron's 3 years
cost more than Miller’s 4 years.
Butler is shooting a career high 5+ 3pta a game right now and just hitting 30% (actually slightly below). He’s a career 32% 3pt shooter so he’s not really a spot up guy. Miller is a 40% 3pt shooter who thrives as a spot up guy.
Right neither guy is going to threaten AC Green’s record anytime soon for durability but both are playing right now and that’s what matters.
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by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
actually amend that
Caron’s 3 year cost exactly the same as Miller’s 4 years.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
We're not using Caron only as a spot-up guy
He’s the only other guy than CP3 (of the starters) who can create off the dribble late in the shot clock and still get the shot he wants. Billups has struggled doing this, Blake just does a fade away, and DJ.. well, we know how that would end. We constantly use Caron in this capacity, and Miller would not be able to fill this role for us.
Gomes’ current role is more like what Miller’s role would be. So as a backup to Caron and a replacement for Gomes, I understand that Miller would fit well, but not as a replacement to Caron. That’s just silly since we have a top 10 offense so far this year. Caron fits perfectly fine.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
this
Bad game last night, but he’s been a big part of the success this year. And none of this even takes his D into account. He’s generally been guarding the other team’s best perimeter player, and doing a pretty decent job against the likes of LeBron and Kobe. Miller would get abused by those guys.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
This
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I'm gonna assume you meant to reply to Erik O
Otherwise I’d be forced to say, “Go away.”
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Lighten up Francis
As I said crazy man I will respond to whatever post I want.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
go away
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
go away crazy person
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
I have gone away
I never comment on anything you write. But nice job of copying me you crazy stalker.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Gomes and Miller are actually a good comparison
They both are allergic to shooting. I can’t believe Mike Miller’s lack of scoring per 36 min since 2008-09.
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
He doesn't shoot alot sure
but he makes them at a much higher rate than Gomes and Butler.
Miller Career TS% 57.6
Gomes Career TS% 52.8
Butler Career TS% 52.3
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by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 4:31 PM PST up reply actions
What's the point of efficiency if you don't shoot?
One of our main gripes with Gomes last year was that he simply wasn’t a credible offensive threat, despite his relative inefficiency. Time and time again he passed up open shots and Miller seems to be doing the same if he can barely put up 10 points per game over 36 minutes, and that dates back to the 2008-09 TWolves team that desperately needed his offense.
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
Well
how do you know he didn’t make the pass the someone with a even better shot? If you are taking 20 shots a game odds are you chucked a few bad ones. Some guys can still make those bad ones (see Durant) and some guys are Randy Foye.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
I read an article when Miller signed with Miami
which concluded that Miller in last few years drove up his shooting% by being more selective, by taking less and better shots.
The idea is then somewhere down the line you’ll have bad shots. The clips seem to go to Butler when their offensive possession goes south and the shot clock runs out. The guy seems to be able to make those shots at a reasonable rate (0.593 for shots after 21 seconds in the shot clock according to 82games which is very high).
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 20, 2012 12:43 AM PST up reply actions
Umm
His TS% has remained the same when he was shooting 13 times a game and he was shooting 9 times a game.
His assists numbers went up those 2 years he shot less so it looks like he was making the right basketball play.
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by ClipperChuck on Jan 20, 2012 2:05 AM PST up reply actions
his TS% is quite good and stays constant
shouldn’t he be just be shooting more?
his AST% didn’t really change significantly. Weird player in that sense.
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 20, 2012 2:10 AM PST up reply actions
anyway I think we need Butler more for the moment
It could very well be that once we get our offense humming Mike Miller would be more suited.
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 20, 2012 2:13 AM PST up reply actions
The offense is already pretty good
CP3 sees to that. They’d be slightly better if Miller was taking those 5 3s game instead of Butler.
Also his AST Rate went up 20-25%
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 20, 2012 2:15 AM PST up reply actions
the first season he shot less it did
but it came back down the season afterwards and his FGA stayed down.
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 20, 2012 2:25 AM PST up reply actions
Which was still his 3rd highest year
I’m going to guess he passed the ball to Foye who dribbled unnecessarily for 5-10 seconds so Miller no longer got credited with any assists.
/snark
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by ClipperChuck on Jan 20, 2012 2:30 AM PST up reply actions
fair point
but still I would say the guy should shoot a bit more. He is too good at it to be just a glorified spot-up shooter
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 20, 2012 2:33 AM PST up reply actions
He does other things
he’s a fantastic rebounder for a wing, he’s a good ball handler (he was once the backup PG for the Grizzlies). He’s just a smart basketball player who plays hard (too hard at times, like Blake he dives after everything)
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by ClipperChuck on Jan 20, 2012 4:09 AM PST up reply actions
Terrible slow wing defender
Why ignore the elephant in the room?
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Making up lies as usual
show us something besides your baseless opinions
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 20, 2012 1:10 PM PST up reply actions
Um it's right there in his ESPN player profile
And if you watch him play you’d see it for yourself
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Ok
this is what is says
+ Solid defender against most 3s thanks to size, but too slow to defend 2s.
Where you get the terrible part from? I don’t see it in any of the defensive ratings either
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 20, 2012 4:56 PM PST up reply actions
This
If you watched him you’d see he was passing up open shots like he was afraid. There are articles talking about the issue from the time. The love for Miller, who can’t defend, is not rational.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
your comments are irritating me
I prefer Butler but that doesn’t take away the fact that Mike Miller would be a fine addition to this team.
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 20, 2012 6:57 AM PST up reply actions
Not as a starter IMO
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Great point
He was afraid to shoot
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Actually unless CP3 has been on the bench
Caron has not been creating off the shot clock late. That’s why I said Miller fits the starting 5 better, he’d be the beneficiary of those 5 3 ptas that Butler is currently seeing but he’d be making more than 30% of them.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 4:33 PM PST up reply actions
Are you not watching the games?
CP3 usually creates, yes, but he often also dishes to Caron late in the clock, who does more than just spot-up and shoot. He usually pump fakes, does a move, and takes the shot. That’s, unfortunately, not what Miller is good at. His TS% is high because, like DJ, he knows his limitations. And like DJ, he should be a 5th option, not a 2nd-4th option like Caron is. I don’t want 2 DJ-like-limited-offense players in the starting 5. I really think this isn’t just a team of puzzle pieces whose stats will add up to equal X-wins, but rather a set of complementary parts that flow well together. If Caron did nothing but shoot spot-up jumpers and never put the ball on the floor, then maybe the flow wouldn’t change with a Miller-type, but that’s just not the case.
This is very eye-testy. (Yes, I said “testy.”) But I think that this is one of those cases where there’s more going on than the stats say. This is in the vein of Ariza moving from a role of being a spot-up shooter to being asked to dribble more. LAL PER was around 16, HOU and NOH PER was around 12.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
I've been watching the games
I see Butler get the ball, think about shooting, pump fake then take the shot and miss anyways. Butler is the 3rd option at best on offense with the starting lineup, probably 4th behind Billups. And if the pump fake combo is so good why is his true shooting % at 51.2%? Maybe he should stop doing that.
With a player like CP3 on the team (and Billups and Mo behind that), there’s really little reason to Iso Butler against his man and jab step his way to glory.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
AT he is not
I agree that after reviewing the stats, Miller does appear to be better—-and maybe it’s just the eye test feeding me fools gold—-but I just don’t see how he’d be a better fit than Butler. What I’d love is to have both of them. You’d have to start Butler because of ego issues, but Miller off the bench would be stellar. There’s no way Miami bites on any trade proposals that don’t involve Mo Williams, is there? Or if we offered Mo, they could give something else in exchange in addition to Miller.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
I'd like both
I never said Butler is a bad player (he’s definitely better than Gomes) but he’s actually more comfortable with the ball in his hands which defeats the purpose on a team with CP3, Billups and Mo. He’d actually get more chances to play his “game” on the 2nd unit.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 10:15 PM PST up reply actions
I feel like a big part of our offense has to do with the depth in ball handlers and shot creators
We have so many offensive weapons, CP3 doesn’t have to be the only one dribbling the ball. With CP3, Mo, Butler, and Billups, we should always have to least 2 shot-creators out there at once. Unless stupid Vin decides to go 10 deep again.
Anyway, I’d just rather add a guy like Miller than think about having to lose someone for him. I’d still be cool with losing Mo as long as we got more than Miller back. I’d really be cool with James Jones.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
I'd add Miller - he's just too expensive
And ridiculously injury prone at this point
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Injury prone
Quite possibly… right now I am worried about Miller, Curry, and actually Gordon.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
So...
Miller has a much higher career assist rate and he’s a much better shooter. Sure Butler can create more “shots” for himself but he’s not making too many of them.
And Butler is taking 5 3s a game right now, is he creating these or is he being set up for these 3s by other players? From what I’ve seen is he’s getting a lot of catch and shoot opportunities and that’s not what he’s good at.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 20, 2012 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
What about his "late in the shot clock" stat?
To quote BelgianClipper, “The idea is then somewhere down the line you’ll have bad shots. The clips seem to go to Butler when their offensive possession goes south and the shot clock runs out. The guy seems to be able to make those shots at a reasonable rate (0.593 for shots after 21 seconds in the shot clock according to 82games which is very high).”
That’s gotta be worth something, right? This is the thing I was just guessing about based on the eye-test, about how we’ve been using him this year and how he’s been helpful for us. This is just nit picking really… Miller isn’t a bad fit by any means, but I just think Butler is a big reason as to why we have a top 10 offense. Whether it’s deserved or not, he attracts a lot more attention from the defense than a guy like Miller would. That’s the kind of thing that helps DJ or Blake get open, without Butler even touching the ball. We’re getting into weird non-stat territory now that’s probably not worth discussing.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Would it surprise you
to learn that Miller’s team for his career has a much better ORating per 100 possessions than Butler?
And I don’t think Butler draws a lot of double teams these days, if anything his guy will double off him to help on Blake or CP3. Miller is such a marksman his guys would be dumb to leave him open on the 3pt line.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 21, 2012 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
Miller can't defend Erik
Not debatable
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Based on what?
What magical system are you basing Miller’s D on? Or are you pulling it out of your ass like usual?
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 20, 2012 2:09 AM PST up reply actions
I never watched enough Miller to know that
I just read the stats on him and remember that in Memphis he used to score a lot.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
On a side note, Caron vs Miller
I would also wonder if Miller could handle taking as many shots as Butler takes. He hasn’t done that in a while, and since it seems like CP3 is prone to defer, and Billups and Blake are taking a ton of shots already, Foye might be the one to get those shots that Miller doesn’t take if he doesn’t embrace taking like 12 shots a game instead of 8-9. Thinking out loud.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Foye wouldn't be in the game with him
Miller would be taking those 5 3s Butler is taking and few of the long 2s. The 4 fewer shots he takes would be spread amongst CP3, Billups, Blake and DJ.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 10:17 PM PST up reply actions
a healthy Miller >>> Foye
but I prefer Butler over Mike Miller, both would have been gravy but I would guess a bit expensive (Miller wouldn’t have signed with Clips for MLE money)
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 20, 2012 12:47 AM PST up reply actions
Even better
As I mentioned we can now trade Foye for him. Well I doubt it happens, Miami knows how good he is, they were ridiculously good last year when Haslem and Miller played with the big 3. But maybe just maybe they need to save money so they dump some salary.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 20, 2012 2:18 AM PST up reply actions
If Miller can stay healthy for a month
I would do that in a heartbeat.
I didn’t get the Miller nor the Battier move for Miami. Okay they were the best available players but getting a decent center or PG seems some much more of a need for them.
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by BelgianClipper on Jan 20, 2012 2:27 AM PST up reply actions
They wanted Dalembert
but he wanted more than the MLE. The Heat only had the mini-MLE unless they amnestied Miller (so they go below the luxury tax) but since Dalembert wouldn’t take the MLE they kept Miller and signed Battier.
I’m sure the Heat looked at it and said well we made the Finals last year with Joel Anthony and 3 retirees so we know we can win without a strong C. So they signed the best basketball players since the big 3 is so versatile.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 20, 2012 2:33 AM PST up reply actions
Miller can't guard anyone
Stop the nonsense
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Dont reply to my comment
unless you are going to contribute something of worth. Show me where Mike Miller can’t play D (and where Caron is suddenly a stopper). Otherwise go away crazy person.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 20, 2012 2:10 AM PST up reply actions
Let's review
1. You were wrong about Olshey
2. You wanted us to spend $25M for Miller last year, even though he’s old and slow. He hardly played last year and was almost amnestied because he’s not worth the fat contract.
If we had signed Miller as you screamed about last year in 1k plus posts here to that fat contract, we would have been in a much worse cap position this year, putting CP3 and other acquisitions in jeopardy. And the guy would not have played much, providing us with no help.
3. Caron is more athletic and can get around the court much better than Miller at this stage of their respective careers. We need that SF positoin to be a good wing defender in addition to a good shooter. Caron is easily the consensus choice there. Go to ESPN if you don’t believe what I say about Miller not getting around the court very well.
4. Miller is hurt yet again right now!!!
5. Your arguments about Foye and Gomes and how bad Olshey is for signing themnot only misses the forest for the trees, but have been proven wrong (based on PER) by none other than Steve Perrin and others here recently. Why do you keep making such arguments when you are so very clearly wrong? Please stop.
6. Caron three point shooting – I recall reading stats saying that he’s been good for the past three years. Not just the half a season you admitted to below. Forget about career – look at the past three years. And again, three point shooting is only part of the picture. Defense is critical.
You can continue to make whatever arguments you want to, but you’d be wrong.
Finally, I’m not going to call you “crazy” because citizens who say such things to other Clipsnation citizens are losers.
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Comment is full of fail
I retract my original statement if this is what you will be “contributing”
1. I was right about Olshey’s 2010 free agent signings. Look at Gomes, Foye and Cook.
2. Miller isn’t slow, he’s the same age as Caron, he played more games than Caron last year and he’s worth the contract. Signing Miller instead of Gomes for instance would barely change the cap space the Clippers have.
3. You go to ESPN and give us the links, I already linked a few articles about how Miller is bringing out the best of Lebron, how he’s a underrated defender etc etc. You got nothing per usual Jax standards.
4. He’s healthy now. He had a sport’s hernia. Butler is coming off a major leg injury. Really now?
5. Misquoting people, no one here has said signing Foye or Gomes were good. And their PERs would only show how bad they are
6. Alright let’s look at the last 3 years. 31%, 29% and then 43% last year which he played just 29 games. He’s already almost taken as many 3s this year in 12 games as he did total last season making 29.5% of them. The 43% looks like an outlier based on a small sample size now.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 20, 2012 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
I think Miller tweaked his ankle or something right when he got back
I picked him up in fantasy after his perfect game. Blows :(
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
He kept playing
I watched part of the Lakers-Heat game last night and he was diving all over the place like Blake Griffin.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 20, 2012 5:01 PM PST up reply actions
You missed the one about not calling other people crazy because that's only for "losers"
Which he then proceeds to do exactly 1 hour and 38 minutes later on this very same page.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Don't comment unless you have basketball-related comments please
And my crazy comment to you was a joke -
Lighten up Francis
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
go away stalker
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Caron is a much better 3 point shooter last few years
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Um
he shot better for half a season (which might be a statistical outlier) last year. Career wise he’s never better than 35.7% and that was one year, most of them time its been in the low 30s
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 4:29 PM PST up reply actions
WHAT? Better fit than Caron ? Mike friggin Miller?
Um, ok
"[Fans are] not technically a lot of times savvy. They don't understand and they don't weigh issues the way that [I] weigh them."
Mike Dunleavy, Sr.
Yep
Caron’s shooting 5 3’s a game right now. That’s not his game
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 4:27 PM PST up reply actions
The Big Three
We should really inquire about the possibilty of acquiring one of the big three. Maybe Paul Pierce since he is from LA?
It's Hip to be a Clip!
If I were to go after one of them it would be Ray Allen, PP is ball dominant, it doesn't work on this team.
Formerly Newtybar. Proud member of Club FTR. falconPUNCH! for president!
by Newton Pham on Jan 19, 2012 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
All 3 would fit
Problem is making the salaries work. Best I could come up with is Foye, Bledsoe and Cook for Ray Allen. They get small salary cap relief (2.5 million this year plus luxury tax is 5 million) and a young cheap prospect in Bledsoe. Throw in 2nd round picks if that would help.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
Who goes to the bench
With this scenario who goes to the bench Allen or Billups?
It's Hip to be a Clip!
by ClipperOptik on Jan 19, 2012 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
Allen would start
and Billups would back them both up. It’s a guess but because Ray Allen is such a respected player I don’t think Billups would mind as much as if they added a lesser known player at SG and put him in the starting lineup. This would give the Clips the flexibility to trade Mo for a big and you know have a 3 guard lineup of Billups, Allen and Paul which looks pretty darn good.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
I actually don't think this is completely unreasonable
If the Celtics are blowing it up and letting Allen walk, they’d like to get something for him. Bledsoe would be a nice young possibilty. I wonder if there’s any team that has anything better?
Funny in this scenario Boston would end up with the Clippers pick this year and they guy they traded the pick for.
Ainge is looking for good young players, not filler
And the one prospect we have, Bledsoe, plays the same position as the one good young player he has. Since Allen is a big expiring contract who also could help pretty much any contender, I’ve got to think Ainge can do a lot better than this.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Allen
But because Allen is an expiring contract he’s only a half year rental with perhaps the hope you can re-sign him to a short deal after the season. (This is what I would want the Clippers to do) There would be a lot of teams interested but they certainly won’t be willing to part with much for just a playoff run with Allen. There will be filler and then lots of guys with “upside” and “potential”. Bledsoe fits into that boat.
That would be the hope
I don’t know what the market is like for Ray Allen. The Bulls don’t need him anymore with Rip around. Fortunately there’s only a dozen “win now” teams that would need a veteran like Allen and most of them are set at SG. Those teams would only be able to offer expirings plus their 1st round picks (which would be in the 20s) for him. So is Bledsoe more valuable than a late first round pick?
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 12:46 PM PST up reply actions
I agree
I said this was the best I could come up with in a direct 2 team trade. They could get a 3rd team involve and the Clips could send Bledsoe to that team and that team could send a different prospect to the Celtics.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
A Few Thoughts
Great win. Some anxious moments there.
The biggest thing, I think, that I mentioned above, is trying to figure out what it means that the Clippers won this game without Chris Paul. We’ve seen enough of CP3 to know that he’s an absolute witch in the fourth quarter and with general game control. And the Clips are obviously one kind of team with him (elite or verging on it) and completely different without him (middle of the pack? on the good side of the playoff bubble?). Without him, this game could go either way, but in the last seconds Billups became a winner and difference maker, rather than the goat and recipient of unfortunate and poor officiating.
But seeing Billups hit a big shot without Paul available says a lot about the Clippers and their potential. It’s a big win that restores their momentum and keeps it going and improves the strong record of home victories. Billups will hit even more shots, many of them in important situations, when Paul comes back. He’s a weapon, and a notable force, the embodiment of veteran poise and savvy.
Then there’s Mo Williams, who was of course much more impressive over the course of the game as a whole. Like, crazy impressive. Huge difference maker, great in his new role, even fantastic. It’s kind of the way things are going for Mo this year, that he has a spectacular game and virtually produces the win on his own, while Billups struggles and almost gives the game away and then hits the big shot and gets the headline. Headscratcher, if you’re Mo.
But the point is how impressive and effective the Clipper guard corps is. It has all sorts of features and wrinkles, each of these guys is different, but every single one of them, even Randy Foye, brings something to the table. CP3 brings just about everything of course, Billups and Mo are as mentioned. Foye is less than, but I keep coming back to the idea that he would start for the Lakers, and look pretty good doing it, so he’s not exactly chopped liver, and it’s important to remember that he’s the Brian Cook of this guard corps, that he shouldn’t be a rotation player (and Bledsoe should get minutes ahead of him). But what this says about the guard corps is that there’s a lot of depth, and that depth is being put to use. With CP3, Mo and Bledsoe out, the Clips were embarassed in Utah. Bring Mo back, and they beat Dallas. Not too shabby. I also give Foye credit for the breakthrough about using DJ more effectively after getting penetration and into the paint. Now that the other guards, especially Paul, have seen it work, and DJ knows where to go, I would think that it would become a consistent weapon. Taking it away will give you something else. More credit to Foye.
And credit to DJ. He seems to love the home cooking as much as anybody. Getting him buckets should be huge, and should make a nice contribution to his steady rise. Now he has one 9 fg game in each of the last 3 years. That’s a start. Just keep rebounding and playing D and running the floor, and he’ll add to the list.
So nice to stay happy and excited, getting the win and Mo back playing a great game, going towards the matchup with Minnesota (Adelman, Love and Rubio), with Paul looking like he likely to come back. Great stuff.
everyone around here is down on Foye
but I think he has the most chemistry with our bigs. He isnt shooting well at the moment but as the season goes, his average should come back up to around 42%. He is also playing good D. If anyone should be traded, it should be Bledsoe because he is the most attractive trade piece based on potential.
Foye would be great if
He’d pass more, with a lower turnover rate, improve his shot selection and make a greater % of shots. Reality is it’s probably too much to improve on for a player his age. Those good plays are great, but don’t be fooled, they come at a great cost. Of course, it could always be worse…and if we’re stuck with him this year I guess it’s good to see him get some run and get more comfortable out there.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
+1 if only he would play within himself
His true shooting percentage is 42% and he has no business taking 10+ shots like he has the past four games. And sandwiched between the 10 and 6 games, he’s had 0 and 1 assist. Not sure how that translates to chemistry with the bigs. Sure, he’s had a number of nice passes last night, but that’s not enough to make up for the horrid shooting (fg,3pt,ft) and lack of consistency.
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
Right, and if I remember correctly
It was Mo who started looking for DJ in the 1st quarter, then Foye and Blake followed suit.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
yes but how many of those bad shots he takes were shots with 1-2 seconds on the shot clock?
same can be said about Chauncy, alot of desperation shots
Chauncey's TS% is 54 compared to Foye's 42%
Chauncey actually hits his threes or gets to the line.
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
Exactly
Chancey’s only a career 41.6% shooter which looks bad but when you delve deeper and see how many of his shots are 3s and how often he gets to the free throw line (and makes them) then you realize he’s a very efficient scorer.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
my argument was never intended to imply Foye is better than Billups,
my argument was to persuade people into thinking Foye was serviceable with his chemistry with our bigs and defensive presence. I think Foye’s problem is he’s not a good shooter when trying to create but can be a good shooter when Blake looks to spot him for an open jumper. I understand that he isnt an efficient scorer but there arent many people on the team outside of CP3, and Blake who are efficient.
Actually
right now the most efficient scorers are the Clips are DJ, Paul, Mo and Billups. Butler is below average. Evans is averageish but barely shoots. Blake’s actually not too efficient right now but that’s primarily because he’s regressing in free throw shooting.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 5:00 PM PST up reply actions
Re: Butler
Check out his advanced game log (hit the filter):
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/butleca01/gamelog/2012/
He’s so up and down. Sometimes he’s super efficient, sometimes he’s super inefficient. Offensive ratings bouncing around with TS%. Chances are he’ll just regress to norms, but I’m hoping that once the chemistry improves, he’ll improve too.
Mike Miller was even more all over the place… geez.. 83% TS% and then 33% right after. I wonder what that means?
More thinking out loud.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
oops meant to link Miller
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millemi01/gamelog/2011/
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Game log is going to change alot
they only shoot a dozen times a game so hard to get a consistent read from them, especially since they are jump shooters and not getting sure things like DJ.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 10:18 PM PST up reply actions
Yea for sure
I never tried looking at game logs til now (that had advanced stats). Kinda hard to get a read on it.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Again, need more convincing on Foye and chemistry
Yes, he’s had a few memorable feeds but in two of the past four games he dished 0 and 1 assists. Now assists don’t tell the whole story, but it would follow that great chemistry (as demonstrated by getting our bigs open look) would presumably lead to assists.
And my main point is that I’d much rather have Billups, Mo or Paul shooting those same open looks than Foye.
Remembers when you could buy a nosebleed ticket at the Sports Arena and end up courtside.
Down to 1-2 seconds on the shot clock because he dribbled around for 10 seconds
Pass the ball, Li’l Chucker! Pass!
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
I was thinking the same thing. You can’t blame being low in the shot clock when you’re the ballhandler. It’s their job to set up the team with a good shot.
by Michael White on Jan 19, 2012 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
+1
Like I mentioned in preview I want the ball in Foye hands because as a play maker he has the confidence in the bigs especially Jordan that Billups , Paul and even sometimes Mo are not comfortable making. DJ has about 3-6 good looks for a lob off the pick and run or just running hard to per game those points we turn sown for lower percentage shots would make our offense even stronger. Im not saying DJ will average 20 ppg but he should be able to get a solid 12ppg if we continue to look for him on the drive. Same goes for Griffin.
by KillaClip on Jan 19, 2012 1:53 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Great game indeed
Mo saved the day, otherwise I really believe this is a loss.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
That's actually kind bad news for the Clips
Beasley’s been even worse this year. This means more PT for Anthony Randolph and Derrick Williams.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 19, 2012 5:13 PM PST up reply actions
Yea
he’s playing like…Michael Beasley. If Beasley is out we’re going to get a good look at him.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 20, 2012 2:12 AM PST up reply actions
Last year he killed the clippers
and I think he would have been hard for Butler to guard, I’m happy he won’t be playing.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
Billups doing his best
Tim Teabow impression in the 4th quarter!
"Blessed is the person who is too busy to worry in the daytime
and too sleepy to worry at night."
Author Unknown
Heh
I’m actually a long time Bronco fan, but you’re so right.
"The need to be right - the sign of a vulgar mind."
by ghost_ride on Jan 19, 2012 10:12 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
screw up for 75% of the game
and then make an unlikely comeback?
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 20, 2012 12:48 AM PST up reply actions
screw up for 75% of the game?
It’s called Tim Tebow Time if you must know! lol
"Blessed is the person who is too busy to worry in the daytime
and too sleepy to worry at night."
Author Unknown
by Lawler's Law on Jan 20, 2012 9:28 AM PST up reply actions




















