Rumor: Heat, Spurs, CLIPPERS, Hawks and Knicks pursuing Kenyon Martin.
https://twitter.com/#!/hoopshype/status/163005837370081280
4 months ago
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Interesting. Clippers vs Knicks in terms of offering him the most...
Each having a former teammate as well…
We need Bill Walton back: "THROW IT DOWN BIG MAN...THROW IT DOWN"
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I think it very well could be the Clippers. We are popular destination now. Come on, NYK, really? We are in contention. Either destination, he will have to play back up (Griffin or Stats). It would be better to have this lineup (Mo, Bledsoe, Gomes, Martin, Evans).
If we can get Martin we may not even have to part with Mo Williams to fix a gaping hole in our lineup.
Wonder why its so hard though for Mo to embrace the role. Hearing his interviews, he doesn’t come out negative but just going through the motion. “I’m a big boy, I can handle it” etc etc.
Come on, Manu Ginobili/ Lamar Odom can do it why can he? And he isn’t as good as those two.
Let Mo play mad. It seems to be working in the team's favor.
He’s making a serious run at a sixth man award if he keeps it up.
No Doubt
If we can sign Kenyon, then make a deal for a wing defender/shooter off the bench, this team should be set for the playoffs. All depends on how Bledsoe plays when he returns, but at this point i feel like the writing is on the wall, and Bledsoe will be shopped. Mo has been too good to trade at this point, and while the depth at PG looks good in the short term with so many b2b games/potential for injury, if we are to seriously contend in the postseason we are gonna need a better 2nd wing player than Gomes. I would rather have Jamario Moon at this point (who is a FA by the way).
by cassellmania on Jan 27, 2012 3:05 PM PST up reply actions
K-Mart is decent at defending the LeBrons and stuff
He can play the 3 on defense (kind of a Shawn Marion role).
Hell yes.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Second Unit
If this signing happens and possibly could move Gomes somewhere, our second unit can look like this:
C/PF: Evans
PF: Kenyon
SF: Foye
SG: Mo
PG: Bledsoe
I don't think Foye can pull off the 3 unless we are playing the Warriors
Gomes is going to have to play unless we can bring in another 3.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
I have faith in Olshey that he's looking to upgrade the 2/3 back up.
Probably right around the trade deadline.
There’s no way this team can roll with Foye as the SF with the second unit. Vinny should stop using Gomes at the 4, too. They need to jettison those two and Cook as the deadline gets nearer.
Like I said
K-Mart has played lots of 3 before. He spent a lot of time guarding Kobe when the Nuggets would play the Lakers in the playoffs.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
You gotta be kidding me.
There’s no way in hell that an NBA level coach would trot a 34-year old Kenyon Martin trying to keep up with the likes of Kobe, Durant. He doesn’t have that kind of a lateral quickness anymore. Maybe on a double team/help situation, yes, but giving him minutes at SF would defeat the purpose of bringing in a guy who is counted on for his low-post defense and rebounding.
There’s gotta be a better solution than playing him out of position.
This is all I want him to do:
Martin has never played good defense by pressuring guys on the perimeter, so why would we put him on KD? He’s effective in the paint and that’s where he’ll stay. No, you put him on all the guys you want to stay out of the paint, like LeBron, who powers his way to the goal without using a ton of lateral moves. I’m surely not suggesting that you intentionally play him out of position, but he can play the SF if need be on bigger SFs. If Shawn Marion can do it (played plenty of PF in the past—-basically everywhere except Dallas), why not Martin?
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
You're the one suggesting that he play SF.
Martin is still playing against guys that can draw him out of the painted area because of their perimeter game. There is no need to play him out of position.
Shawn Marion is more of an exception, not the rule. Plus, he is a tweener who had/has(?) great leaping ability but he’s also a good on-ball defender because he moves his feet well against smaller guys and have a strong enough base to make bigger guys work harder to establish post position and defend the entry pass with his wing span.
I’d much prefer Del Negro run his 3-guard lineup with the combination of shotblockers between DJ and/or Martin.
Point is, there is a higher probability of this team exploring other options at SF without even mentioning Martin playing out of position at SF.
Can play. Has played. Not SHOULD ALWAYS play.
You realize your description of Shawn Marion is a description of Kenyon Martin, right?
The dude has guarded Kobe Bryant in the playoffs as recently as 3 years ago, and he has posted almost identical stats (both offensive and defensive) since then. His defensive rating hasn’t dipped at all. I have no idea why you think he somehow suddenly lacks lateral quickness when he was guarding a SG and there’s really no evidence at all that his defense has suffered in recent years such that he can’t guard SFs.
Again, I’m not suggesting that he start at SF and always play SF, effectively playing him out of position. You’re putting those words in my mouth. I’m suggesting that on the occasion that we don’t want to completely burn Caron Butler guarding Kobe, Martin is more than capable and has done so in the past. And at $2.5mil for 1 year, I don’t see a problem having a guy who is capable of guarding anyone from the 3 or 4 spots. Or would you rather put Gomes on LeBron?
You need to understand that I’m not saying we should do everything we can to get the guy, I’m just saying that he has the ability to play multiple positions, and play good defense at all of those positions. He can do a lot to help us win—-a hell of a lot more than Gomes is doing at SF/PF—-and that’s all that really matters. Why you are so hung up on the fact that I ever mentioned he has played defense on an SF is completely and utterly beyond me.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Agree to disagree, my dude.
Three years ago? At 34, Kenyon Martin isn’t getting any run at SF. I’m simply pointing out that the Ciippers explore other options before they even consider something like this with Martin in the fold. I never said anything about you suggesting that he START or get BULK minutes at SF, I’m simply pointing out that he’d be limited in that capacity at this point in his career, it doesn’t matter that he’s played LOTS of SF, NO TEAM would even consider that he gets any run at SF. I’d be more inclined to use Blake in a situation you brought up.
BTW, there is a world of difference between Shawn Marion as a tweener at SF/PF and Kenyon Martin at PF/C. Kenyon doesn’t nearly have the mobility/lateral quickness that Marion has, esp. guarding much smaller and more mobile players at the wing.
It makes no difference since Martin isn’t in a Clipper uniform. There’s still the trade deadline to explore trade options for a back up SG/SF.
Agree to disagree it is, then.
Yeah, it really makes no difference haha… we can revisit this if it ever actually materializes.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
By the way
I totally agree that in most typical situations, playing Martin at SF is stupid. Just every once in a while, he can fill a unique role. It’s just the opposite of the 3-guard lineup, that’s all. 3 guards-2 bigs, or 2 guards-3 bigs. In the same way, I wouldn’t want to permanently use a 3-guard lineup either, ya know?
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Trading Foye and Cook is possible
since they are expiring its at least plausible.
I don’t see how you can trade Gomes unless its with a sweetener.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 27, 2012 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
But then, we'd be losing someone (Foye) who can actually score off the bench.
by lovinglosangeles on Jan 27, 2012 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
Anyone can score
if they chuck up a lot of shots.
You much rather have JR chucking than Foye chucking.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 27, 2012 4:27 PM PST up reply actions
I would be in favor of Martin coming in.
Although with Reggie in fold, the 4 position might actually be decently covered assuming he’s healthy. I would hope he’d be able to play some minutes at the 5. Kenyon might be a bit longer than Reggie but not by much. He definitely has a better offensive game than any of the bigs on the bench (although that’s not saying much). But 20-25 minutes of Kenyon, should be able to put up 6-8 points, which is much more than anyone else at this point.
Reggie has been solid when playing the 5.
Give all of Solomon Jones’ minutes to Reggie. Then w/ Kenyon, it means we can say goodbye to Cookie and Gomes’ PT will be greatly reduced by getting no minutes at the 4.
I’m digging this. Hope Chauncey lobbies and he picks us.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 27, 2012 3:07 PM PST up reply actions
Only issue. . .
Reggie and even Kenyon are tough enough to guard most centers in the league, but if we’re going up against Bynum or Marc Gasol in the playoffs? Those guys will just hit hooks and Js over them all game.
Still, not like there’s a good crop of 7 footers out there and Kenyon can hit shots. . .
by cassellmania on Jan 27, 2012 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
Minimal risk.
The other choice is Cook or Jones playing the 5…
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 27, 2012 4:32 PM PST up reply actions
I don't think height is a big issue at all between those two.
They’re very good at using body positioning to MOVE guys like Bynum/Gasol/LMA out of the block. As long as they make it tough for those guys to establish position, they’re taking good time off the shot clock to get re-established or rely on a bail out.
So the choice is between Clippers and Knicks?
by lovinglosangeles on Jan 27, 2012 3:17 PM PST reply actions
The Heat could probably start him though...
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Bosh and Anthony are the starters. He’d team up with Haslem as a backup. MIA is his best chance at a title, but he won’t get the $ or mins he would with the Clips. It’s up to him what he values most at this point.
Not that improbable that they pull Anthony, push Bosh to C, and start Martin.
In time, of course, and only if K-Mart plays well. But he has a better chance of doing that than starting for LAC or NY.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
I'll tell my people, to tell your people, and if you can tell your people to tell JR Smith's people, I think we can get him to come to LA.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
But apparently the Heat only offer him 1.4 million
by lovinglosangeles on Jan 27, 2012 3:50 PM PST up reply actions
both have plenty of chinese ppl if that's a concern...
We need Bill Walton back: "THROW IT DOWN BIG MAN...THROW IT DOWN"
___________
Follow @manlinessprime
by banandy on Jan 27, 2012 4:05 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
A good fit and an upgrade over Jones.
This team has been missing some much needed low post scoring to pair up with Mo’s perimeter attack. Diogu did just that for the Clippers last year.
With the exception of Reggie, they really don’t have a lot of toughness/physical play from the second unit.
Probably wouldn’t hurt to have a couple of former teammates (Billups and Evans) make phone calls to recruit Martin. Hearing CP3 talk about improving on defense would probably, too.
Work your magic, Olshey.
I think..
It will come down to the Clippers and the Heat.
Go get it done Neil.
There is a reason: Donald T. Sterling
Cook is on a guaranteed contract; Jones is not.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
ugh
There are few NBA players I dislike more than Kenyon Martin. Not to mention, how weird would it be to have two of the most reviled players on that 2006 Nuggets playoff team the Clippers beat?
The Clippers desperately need a better option in the front court than they currently have. But what they really need is length and scoring, and KMart doesn’t much provide either of those. He was still a terrific post defender last I say him, and he’s a better scorer than Reggie Evans or Solomon Jones, but that’s just not saying much.
If you use the $2.5M on KMart, then it’s gone, and if something better comes along you’re out of luck. I guess I’m not sold on this. It’s an upgrade to be sure, but not a great fit.
Look at this way: would you rather have KMart or JR Smith at $2.5M this season? If the goal is to fill both the wing spot and a big spot, the mini mid is good for one of them, and you have to do a trade for the other (or a minimum guy like Diogu). But you can only use the mini mid once.
In this world, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. - Elwood P. Dowd
Would JR sign for 2.5?
He tweeted last month that he could see himself reuniting with CP in LA, but what other teams out there will be lobbying for his services? Would Mo and JR be a good fit (two guys that love to shoot)? Lots of questions there. . .
Kenyon can play D and hit shots, been to the finals, but yeah, not thrilled with the idea. I can’t let go of my dream that we can somehow steal Jason Thompson from the Kings. Much better fit.
by cassellmania on Jan 27, 2012 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
Thompson would be a separate deal
We’d likely have to trade Bledsoe for him (unless the Kings are so down on him to accept 2nd rounders).
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 27, 2012 4:03 PM PST up reply actions
King's Garcia anyone?
Jason Thompson would be a steal but Garcia as a wing I would also quite like. Considering he isn’t playing much we might get him cheap.
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 27, 2012 10:59 PM PST up reply actions
and his contract is in the bleh category
trust the FO I guess
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 28, 2012 1:52 AM PST up reply actions
I'd prefer JR over Kenyon
but you run the risk of losing out on both.
Of the 5 teams mentioned, Heat, Spurs and Knicks are over the salary cap so can only offer 1.4 million.
The Hawks are at 68.5 million. The luxury tax level is $70,307,000 this season. So signing him with the mini MLE would put them over. The Hawks could work some cap magic and get rid of the salary to comfortably fit Martin in however.
So the good news is of the teams rumored the Clips can offer the most right now. If the Clips could get him for the minimum outright (and save the mini MLE for JR) that would be the way to go.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 27, 2012 4:07 PM PST up reply actions
Knicks can offer the mini-mid $2.5 million as well as us.
I’d prefer JR over Kenyon too since I don’t think Kenyon helps us against 2 bigs like the Lakers, where I think JR can help us against a bunch of teams. We could use Bledsoe or whoever in a trade to hopefully get us a decent back-up big that is actually big in height, not the 6’9" Kenyon who has shot below 60% FT’s the past 2 seasons which is another typical quality for our bigs i don’t love. JR may shoot a lot, but he can nail the open 3 which is good for us. Mo and JR on the 2nd unit back-court would be sick. Plus JR has expressed interest in the Clippers which i like too.
There's no doubt JR and Mo would be most lethal duo off bench
Mo would love to have another guy draw defensive attention, but I would hope that they could co-exist as they are both like to shoot shoot shoot. But boy, would they be lethal. . .
by cassellmania on Jan 27, 2012 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
We all know Foye likes to shoot shoot shoot too.
I’m pretty sure you and everyone would agree we’d rather have JR shooting than Foye shooting. Get er done, Olshey!
Ah Knicks can too
I saw them at 72m but thats with Billups $10m (amnestied remainder) left. So yea they can offer the mini MLE.
Help us Altered Beast you're our only hope.
by ClipperChuck on Jan 27, 2012 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
Knicks
Got the $2.5 because they were under the cap during free agency (when the amnestied Billups) and then went over it after they signed Chandler. I think I had it wrong too. Don’t think its the mini-MLE, its the cap exception MLE or something like that.
Knicks have the mini MLE also
I think they’re probably the front runner. Although if he wants to go to a winner he might want to look elsewhere. I don’t think he chooses the Clippers over the Heat for the vet. min. I like Steve’s idea. Trade for a big or go for Diogu. Save the $2.5M for JR.
Does anybody know if the mini MLE the Clippers have can only be for 1 year? Can the sign JR to a 2 year deal for $5M total. I don’t think he would do that but is it possible? I’d love to get JR but I don’t think the Clippers would have his bird rights after the season so we might not be able to bring him back next year.
the thing with JR is if we can get him, that would be good insurance in case Chauncey leaves after this year.
We could basically promise him the starting gig next year if that’s the case.
JR in a hot minute, yo.
A hot minute.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
(that's an inside joke with myself)
what a weirdo.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
I agree with you on the hoops part, but...
If you’re talking personalities, “most reviled,” etc., it’s hard to see why anyone would prefer Smith. K-Mart is just an asshole. Smith is a reprehensible human being who has exhibited a callous disregard for human life. I’ve been waiting 33 years to see the Clippers win a title, and yet I’d much rather have them lose in the 2nd round of the playoffs without JR Smith than see them win a title with that serial offender on the roster.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Quick question, we're talking about a one-year rental at mini-MLE, right?
If so, then is this pro-rata since it would be a signing during the season? As in, even though he signs for that level, he doesn’t actually get paid the full amount since he’s already missed like 1/4 of the season…
We need Bill Walton back: "THROW IT DOWN BIG MAN...THROW IT DOWN"
___________
Follow @manlinessprime
Question:
The article says Kenyon’s team won’t make the playoffs so he could be available mid-Feb when the season ends. Does anyone know about JR Smith’s team since they were on different teams? I’m not up to par on my CBA.
nevermind, JR Smith's team is currently in 8th place.
He scored 39 points in their last game which was a loss (Stephon Marbury had 45 for the opposing team). Hopefully they drop out of the playoffs so we could hopefully get him sooner.
the hell?
Marbury is still playing ball? I should start eating some vaseline…
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
Anyone see this yet??
ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Kaman not with team tonight w/Hornets playing host to Orlando. Coach Monty Williams tells reporters Kaman shelved so youngsters can get PT
2 minutes ago
ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
There’s no deal in place, I’m reliably told, but Hornets have effectively shelved Chris Kaman until they can find trade home for him
5 minutes ago
Yikes, what did Kaman do?
by Beasel on Jan 27, 2012 4:32 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
yeah, i've been working up trade scenarios for teams that could use a 1-yr center rental
the tough part is bringing back enough 1 yr value to the Hornets, since they’re not in the mood for taking on add’l commitments…
Kaman for Josh Smith could possibly work…
But i think Bobcats do something like Boris Diaw and Najera for him…
We need Bill Walton back: "THROW IT DOWN BIG MAN...THROW IT DOWN"
___________
Follow @manlinessprime
Hornets are going to want youth or a draft pick plus an expiring I'd imagine.
They could use a SG since they have this dude who’s always hurt.
ruh roh
Fantasy bball change needed.
"Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be." - John Wooden
the Clips told him he was traded after the trade
NOLA tells him on forehand. True gentlemen in the Bayou.
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 27, 2012 11:01 PM PST up reply actions
Well, wasn't he sort of expecting it though?
Alas, the Clipper front office can’t beat electronic tweets…
yes but not playing him is though
hard to convince some teams he is worth giving up something of value when you are not playing
Your capslock is stuck, please buy a new keyboard
by BelgianClipper on Jan 28, 2012 1:55 AM PST up reply actions
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