Missing Eric Gordon at the SG BUT...
When the debate was going on here at ClipsNation as to whether or not the Clips should yield Gordon in the trade for CP3 I was definitely on the side of those who hated to see EJ go but definitely thought it was worth it. Here are a few reasons that I miss EJ but still believe the front office made the right move.
INJURIES: One of the biggest arguments against the trade was that Eric is younger than CP3 and that CP3 has had knee problems. The reason I thought that whole argument was a wash is because of their respective games.
EJ, especially after winning the gold with Team USA, has become much better at attacking the rim - which was awesome! BUT I really worried every time he did drive down the lane because he would get so much contact (Remember this? [VIDEO] Listen to Ralph worried.)
I figured with EJ's higher flying game compared to CP3's earthbound game, how could fans say they are MORE worried about CP3s knees than EJ hurting at least in a few areas? You might remember as I do that EJ seemed to slip a lot on hard cuts and hurt his groin. Or take off for the rim and land on his previously injured wrist.
Unfortunately, at the start of this short, compacted schedule of a season, Gordon is already hurt. [Eric Gordon Sits Again] No one can say for sure that he would have been injured if he was still on the Clips but it is what it is. Update 1/6 : ESPN/AP is now reporting Gordon to be out 2 - 3 weeks.
MAX MONEY$$$$: Eric Gordon is due for a big contract. In recent interviews Neil Olshey has been saying that the Clippers probably would not have offered a or matched a max type extension for Gordon (Rose recently got a $94.8 MILLION, 5 year deal) We don't know what kind of numbers EJ's agent Pelinka was looking for but if it was reasonable you'd think Olshey would have sealed the deal, paving the way for the Clips to follow the Thunder mold of building around young pieces.
I believe if we kept EJ this year the front office would have chosen to follow the DJ route of letting him go to Restricted Free Agency status and then see what EJ would be offered by other teams. THEN if the amount was reasonable, they would match but if it was so high that it would keep them from being able to sign a Superstar Free Agent, they would LET HIM GO.
Can you imagine the trash talking in the media if that happened? It would be once again the "Clippers Are Cheap", "Clippers Let Gordon Walk For Nothing in Return", blah blah blah. They wouldn't even talk about whether or not EJ is really worth whatever outrageous amount some other team would be willing to give him. (Rudy Gay comes to mind)
Is he a great player? Yes. Should a team allocate Superstar type dollars in their overall budget for him? Hmmmm. What if you already have to worry about saving your max money for Griffin? Double Hmmmm.
The Clippers front office avoided a major PR disaster by trading Gordon now and avoiding the whole issue of whether or not EJ is worth a max extension regardless of how it hinders your ability to sign other stars.
CLUTCH PLAY: I have definitely missed seeing EJ's defense at the shooting guard spot in every Clipper game this year. But this last game against Portland gave me a brief moment where I actually DID NOT miss EJ at the 2 spot.
I know many other fans probably recognized the same moment. It was at the end of the game with the Blazers down by 4 when Jamal Crawford (League leader in 4-point plays) was behind the three point arc, ready to bring Portland back to life with a 3 or possibly 4 point play. Chris Paul, 5 inches shorter guarded him like white on rice and forced him into a jump ball. We all KNOW what would have happened if that was EJ guarding him. Crawford would have made the 3 while EJ fouled him, thus giving him a free throw, tying the game up and giving them the momentum.
Why do I say that? Because as far as I can remember, there were at least two times EJ has fouled a three point shooter, yielding a four point play (and that's just in game ending, critical moments). For some reason the refs have been quick to blow the whistle on EJ at the worst possible moments. Maybe it's the rookie thing. Maybe it's because they were tired of EJ making that sour face every time they called a foul on him or every time he didn't get a foul when he was shooting or driving on offense, but it was like clockwork.
Then to top it off, CP3 has to win a jump ball against Crawford to seal the game. EJs height and jumping advantage was not missed again as CP3 just willed himself to the apex of the jump, not really controlling it but getting enough on it to get it to Mo who snatched it away.
For all the positives EJ brought to the Clippers, the play of CP3 is slowly helping me feel okay with the loss of one of the best guards the Clips have had in awhile.
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All great points
CP3 is a superstar. He took over the Portland game.
EJ is an exceptional talent, but not a superstar. Yet he would have commanded superstar money (I believe Pelinka asked Olshey for $18M per).
Always give up a talent for a superstar, and never pay a talent superstar money.
Do not worry. (Matthew 6:27)
CP3 TOOKOVER
Honestly Clipper fans CP3 took over the Portland Game like we expect CP3 to do so. Dominant in every sense of the word. When is the last time Eric Gordon asked to guard someone? Don’t get me wrong, I actual follow the Hornets now B/C of Kaveman and Gordon (Peace and Prosperity guys) and AFA too… but at 1.5 ppg, he’s struggling to get minutes. Gordon is Injured (sound familiar) and not really playing much. But Chris is getting acclimated and starting to put up numbers on those limited minutes. Considering its a new system for him, Bravo. If I had to choose, considering what Paul and Gordon are worth $$$ wise for what you get, Paul is the answer.
by clipperdaryl2 on Jan 3, 2012 6:12 PM PST up reply actions
So you claim that not only would Gordon have fouled him for sure but Crawford would have definately made the shot as well? And you base this argument on two plays in three years. If this isn’t a joke it’s pretty weak logic.
"Fresh out the airport/ Fresh out the chair with the clippers/ Like Sean Livin' thinking, hmm/ I'm trying to get it like Sean get it" - Wale "Beautiful Bliss"
Really like most of the Fanpost, but I agree with T_Silk here. There have been a handful of more recent examples of EJ playing awesome clutch perimeter D.
I Was Definitely Being Facetious
and overly negative just to emphasize how it seemed like we were so close in so many games with EJ last year only to have something (the worst thing possible – like 4 point plays) happen. And not only to EJ but the whole team in general.
Yes EJ did play a lot of clutch D…but in a lot of losses.
He made great plays on deron and Kobe late in the fourth quarter last year as I recall
Like the bit about Gordon’s health tho. I felt like people weren’t taking this into account enough at the time of the rumors and trade.
"Fresh out the airport/ Fresh out the chair with the clippers/ Like Sean Livin' thinking, hmm/ I'm trying to get it like Sean get it" - Wale "Beautiful Bliss"
The Utah Game
Early in the season was one of EJ’s best games. I loved his drive down the lane with the slam finish. Reminded me of Wade.
I still miss EJ a little.
I'm going to be honest
This years team doesn’t feel like a team yet to me. Could be that everybody is so fresh and new that they haven’t fully bonded together yet and that the previous teams has only had a few additions while being able to keep the core. Whatever the case, it just feels a bit odd, like somehow the pieces aren’t exactly fitting. I guess I’ll need to give it another 20 games and then maybe the group of players will start feeling like a team.
"Things change when something is taken away from you" -BG32
gordon also won the 1 and only game he played for the hornets with both a clutch shot and defense that partially led to a turnover on phoenix’s last possesion
Exactly Right
The 1 and only game. Haha. I admit he should only get better from here but I believe CP3 can be just as clutch if not better. At least enough for us to get over the loss of EJ.
I, too, hated to see EJ go, and felt we overpaid (for the first hour of the trade or so).
The CP3 trade is a triple win.
1) In one fell swoop, we’ve shown Blake Griffin we will do what it takes to win with him. (Actually, two fell swoops if you count matching a HUGE oversheet for DJ.) Honestly, the Cavs had LeBron for SEVEN seasons. Did they ever ONCE surround him with player(s) the caliber of CP3? No, sorry, Larry Hughes, Ben Wallace, Wally Szczerbiak, Antwan Jamison, Tractor Traylor(RIP), and Corpse Diesel don’t count. The best they ever got to help their superstar was Mo Williams.
2) The Clippers have IMMEDIATELY become title contenders. Whether legitimately so or not (I think we’re a piece or two and some time away from that), we are NOW in the conversation EVERYWHERE.
3) What we just saw at the end of the POR game, AND at the end of the GSW game. We now have a player who can take over a game and impose his will on it. Blake is capable, and has done so before, but not to the level of consistency CP3 has shown during his career.
4 (Why not?)) We now have TWO legit League MVP candidates.
In summation, it was the right move to make then and it’s the right move to make now. Happy trails, EJ. I hope IND signs you away from NOH.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 3, 2012 4:12 PM PST reply actions
I hope EJ goes to IND too
Seems like he really wants to play for his home state, and I can see IND becoming a solid team with him. However, I think to say the Clippers became immediate title contenders is a tad rushed. I think we are a solid team who can compete with anyone on any given night, but I think our bench needs some improvement to make us title contenders. Not to mention, with the Heat playing like they are now, not many people seem to stand a great chance. But who knows, maybe I’m completely wrong and we sweep the Heat in the finals! :D
I can see a rebuilding team like NOH settling for a S&T deal w/Indy.
Collison and Paul George for EJ. IND can start Hill and EJ w/ Hibbert, West, and Granger. Solid.
And that’s basically what I said. I personally don’t think we’re a total legit contender without at least two more players and some time to gel.
But this is the NBA. Perception is reality. Deserved yet or not, we’re now being talked about with the Lakers, Bulls, Heat, Celtics, and Thunder.
"Buckle your seat belts, folks. This one's going down to the wire." -The inimitable Ralph Lawler.
by Gordon for President on Jan 3, 2012 4:23 PM PST up reply actions
Very true.
Just based off of our starting 5, I think we will be in talks with those elite teams. And yeah, I just got a tad confused concerning the sentence after “immediate contenders”, my bad :). And also, I can imagine EJ just not signing an offer sheet and playing out his contract.
$$ still says A LOT in the nba
EJ would be dumb to throw away that opportunity and I’m sure his agent won’t let him. Either sign and trade or sign the big contract…weather the storm a year or too and demand a trade
There are so many ? with this type of job…gotta make sure ur taken care of first
Ralph, "Last year so often with Blake Griffin you would see these things coming, with Paul, he's so crafty, all of a sudden boom there it is."
by KidJustin on Jan 4, 2012 6:08 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
I'm not sure NOH would take collision back haha
Ralph, "Last year so often with Blake Griffin you would see these things coming, with Paul, he's so crafty, all of a sudden boom there it is."
by KidJustin on Jan 4, 2012 6:06 PM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
Why not?
He was great for them, just redundant behind CP3. He is certainly an upgrade over Jarrett Jack
i completely agree
but there might be some pride involved…trading for a player you traded away
kind of like Joe Dumars sticking with Darko for so long
(then again….NOH is under new management…might not matter now)
Ralph, "Last year so often with Blake Griffin you would see these things coming, with Paul, he's so crafty, all of a sudden boom there it is."
I think Jarrett Jack has put up solid numbers this year.
I haven’t watch Collison play this year, but if he is an upgrade over Jack, he’s gotta be pretty dang good.
decent offensive numbers in small sample sizes....
jack is solid, but collisions running the show for a very good Indiana team right now, and is more athletic and younger
haha did wiki say that?
lol just messing with you man
jack is nearing the end of his career…hes really a career backup while collison is a starter and still has potential
Collison > Jack hands down
Ralph, "Last year so often with Blake Griffin you would see these things coming, with Paul, he's so crafty, all of a sudden boom there it is."
From what I have read, New Orleans is just being overly cautious with EJ.
He could probably play, but then that would likely increase the chance they win and eventually lower the value of their draft pick.
I miss EJ and had hoped that we would have been able to acquire Paul without giving him up. I thought that having EJ and Paul would put us in championship contention this year. Now that we have all had time to sit back and analyze everything, I think it’s clear that Neil was thinking about our financial situation in the future. If EJ wanted a max deal (which would have started at over $15M in the first year). Blake is definitely getting a max, Paul is on the max, DJ is getting $10M+ every year and Butler has a pretty big salary. We would either be well into the luxury tax every season to field a great team or we’d be stuck with minimum players on the bench as we tried to avoid paying luxury tax.
With the way that Minnesota has played (and they will get better provided they have no injuries), that pick could be 10th or lower. Due to the declining value of the pick and a potential max contract for EJ, the trade is looking better by the day. I hope that Gordon gets what he wants from New Orleans (or whatever city they may move to), Indiana or whoever else is willing to pony up the big bucks. If he ends up with the Pacers, then they’re going to have a beastly team that will not be far behind Miami and Chicago in the upcoming years.
Proud member of Club FTR
Good Point
I thought trading the Minnesota pick was smart too. I already thought with Love and Beasly on year 2 together they could be better this year (translation: not so stinky bad). Now that I’ve seen them play with Barea and Rubio, they could be much better than people give them credit for. But losing lots of games by one or two points is still losing…
Let’s hope they win a bunch to soften the blow of giving up that pick.
Anyone else think that it was a travel and NOT a jump ball?
Paul seemed to knock it out of his hands when he jumped up (but DIDN’T lose possession). It’s also obvious that he jumped and went down. I was happy with the jump ball, but I was also wondering if I was crazy to think it was a travel.
I don't think so
CP3 clearly made contact with the ball which meant it had to be a jump ball.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right"unknown
It didn't HAVE to be a jump ball
He barely made contact with it. Jump balls are usually when they are fought over, it seemed like he nudged it and that led to Crawford’s inability to get off any shot.
Actually, per the RULES...
it would HAVE to be a jump ball. Yes, jump balls are “usually when they are fought over.” Usually, but not always. If a player jumps with the ball and a defensive player gets his hand on it, and then the offensive player comes down with the ball, it is ALWAYS a jump ball.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Wikipedia agrees with me.
Held balls occur when two opposing players both lay equal claim to the ball, and after trying to wrestle it from each other, end up in a stalemate. A jump ball may also be called if there are different calls by two or more referees.
Where in this video Clip did you see EQUAL claim to the ball? Where did you see wrestling? Where did you see a stalemate? If you are going to argue with Wikipedia and say it is wrong, don’t even post. I have seen numerous jump balls, and I feel this one should have been a travel, because how many times have you seen a player knock the ball out of place and it be called a jump? So don’t tell me is HAS to be a jump ball.
HAHAH YOU'RE KIDDING ME RIGHT?
you telling him to shut it over what Wiki says?
:facepalm:
anyways…SKIPPING what i posted below…
it can also be analyzed in this simple way….
Jamal was shooting the ball, right?
CP3 was swiping at the ball, right?
Jamal uses his hands to shoot…
CP3 uses his hands to swipe…
ipso facto…
if CP3 swiped Jamal while he was shooting…then there MUST have been a time when both CP3’s hand and Jamal’s hand were on the ball at the exact same time…where it was a split second or a minute. and during that time…the possession was in question, thus warranting a jump ball BEFORE the travel (if it was even a travel)
Jamal was no longer shooting it…but he was still in the act…Blazers ball? not quite
CP3 swiped at the ball and got it lose…but he didn’t steal it yet…Clippers ball? nope, but could have been soon
ALSO…the more correct call would have to be between a no-call or a jump ball. the fact is that CP3 did swipe the ball away from Jamal while he was going for a jump shot…meaning that Jamal did not have clear possession of the ball (but it wasnt a turnover yet) so since that happened…even if Jamal came down with the ball…it wouldnt be a travel
Ralph, "Last year so often with Blake Griffin you would see these things coming, with Paul, he's so crafty, all of a sudden boom there it is."
Don't argue with Wikipedia hahaha
"Fresh out the airport/ Fresh out the chair with the clippers/ Like Sean Livin' thinking, hmm/ I'm trying to get it like Sean get it" - Wale "Beautiful Bliss"
The OFFICIAL NBA RULES agree with me
Yes, I am going to argue with Wikipedia and say it is wrong. And the fact that you’d imply Wikipedia is never wrong speaks volumes. Here’s the exact passage from 2011-2012 NBA Case Book. In case you don’t know what that is:
The NBA Case Book is the official supplement to the League’s rule book. It details the rules and interpretations of those rules in actual game type situations. This is an easy format to understand and permits the reader to relate to rules through actual play situations.The relevant case, covered explicitly, is case #231 on page 55, used by NBA officials to interpret Rule 4 – Section VI and Rule 6 – Section VI a (1) of the NBA Rulebook. It reads as follows:
Player A1 is attempting a field goal and Player B1 touches the ball causing him to come to the floor without having lost possession of the ball. Is this a traveling violation? No. Anytime the touching of the ball by a defensive player causes the offensive player to return to the floor with the ball still in his possession, it is a jump ball between those players at the nearest circle. The shot clock will remain the same or reset to 5, whichever is greater.This isn’t one of those opinion thingies. That’s why I said in my first response that, per the RULES, it did HAVE to be a jump ball. Maybe now you’ll start to realize that you don’t, in fact, know everything, and that some of us who have been playing and watching basketball since before you were born might know a little something about the game.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
I stand corrected
Okay, I am wrong. I would like to tell you, however, that many times the refs make wrong calls. I am not saying this was a wrong call, so I agree you were right and I am wrong. But please, don’t act as if you are some magnificent basketball player, because I’m sure I would destroy you 1 on 1. And you act as if EVERYONE is correcting me. I admit, I was wrong about the jump ball, but the other posts are nowhere near as objective as this, so with that being said, I admit you are right here; however, your other arguments are useless seeing as you admit everyone is entitled to an opinion, yet you say that I shouldn’t post “nonsense”. Let’s say it was nonsense, many people have nonsense opinions and for you to try to tell them not to share that is wrong.
Wow, how gracious of you
Gee, you’d destroy me in 1 on 1? Duh. I’m old and you’re not. But that doesn’t have anything to do with basketball knowledge. The reason I knew this rule and you didn’t is because I’ve watched literally thousands more games than you. Because of that, and because I listened to a lot of people who knew more about basketball than I did when I was younger, I now know more about basketball than you do.
But it doesn’t always have to be that way. If you open your mind and soak in knowledge from others who older and wiser, young grasshopper, you could someday be wise yourself. But if you insist on clinging to your own opinions as if they are gospel, and don’t open your mind to the viewpoints of others who might know a thing or two, then you won’t.
Even at my advanced age, I’ve learned a lot from other smart Citizens around here. And when they tell me something I don’t already know, or come up with an idea I haven’t thought of yet — even if it contradicts my own viewpoint — I say so. I hope to never stop learning, and engaging in back-and-forth dialogue with people on this board is a part of that.
That doesn’t mean I have to have patience for people with simplistic ideas or stupid, knee-jerk reactions to a bad game or two, though. Those people may be entitled to their opinions, but I am equally entitled to mock them. I think you’re smart, so I’m hoping you’ll stop being part of the latter group and join the former. But digging in your heels and insisting that you’re right because you saw an incomplete answer on Wikipedia or a half-baked idea being floated by one of the numskulls on Bleacher Report isn’t the way to get there. If you keep posting nonsense, I’m going to keep calling you on it.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
I agree that I should soak in knowledge.
Although it is not easy for someone as stubborn as me, I do try to take in others knowledge. However, I think we clash because of one thing you said, “I am equally entitled to mock them.” I agree that if someone says something completely false and absurd, they SHOULD be corrected. For example, you corrected me in the jump ball scenario. I am more than willing to admit you are correct in this, because I was completely wrong. I stated what I believed to be true, and it was false, so in that I thank you for correcting me. However, I do not agree that you should mock other’s for what you believe to be a nonsensical opinion. Why? Because your opinion may be just as absurd regarding their opinion. Often times, we stand by what we believe, especially when there are no facts to flat out contradict our beliefs. Just as you are standing for your belief that the Hornets wouldn’t make the trade, or your beliefs in Griffin’s game, there is no one right answer, that is what makes it an opinion. While being raised, I was told the old saying, “If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say it at all.” I believe everybody is entitled to their opinion, and for that they should also be entitled to sharing it with others. I also believe that you should correct someone who is wrong as long as you can throw some hard evidence on the table (just like you did with the Jump Ball). I am not forcing you to accept all of my opinions; I am, however, asking that you respect them. To you, they may seem absurd, but to me, they seem perfectly logical.
I agree with some of what you say, but
I don’t come out of the gate mocking. I only do that after reasonable discourse goes nowhere. Take a look at the jump-ball scenario, for instance. You weren’t, at first, willing to concede that you were wrong. You didn’t actually listen to what I said in the first post, and made me go find the passage of the rulebook. Until then, it never occurred to you that you might be wrong.
Similarly, with the Blake stuff, you keep spinning incorrect scenarios to prove you are right rather than stepping back and thinking about whether you might be wrong. Instead of, “Hmm, boltsfan may be right, Blake doesn’t get stripped that much, maybe I was being reactionary in my opinion,” where you went was, “Let me try to come up with a reason … oh … yeah, OK, so the reason DeAndre gets stripped more is that he fights for more rebounds.” But the problem is, the facts don’t back that up. Blake’s career TRB% is 18.5%, and his TRB/36 is 11.4, both of which are huge numbers. Meanwhile, DeAndre’s TRB% is 17.0 and his TRB/36 is 10.5 — both very good, but not as good as Blake’s. So the idea that Blake doesn’t try for rebounds just doesn’t jibe with the facts. And when you insist on digging in your heels rather than actually realizing that your opinion may have been wrong, that’s when I’m going to stop being polite, because I don’t believe in that “don’t say it at all” jazz.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
I agree with most of what you are saying
But stats don’t tell of the game. If you looked purely off of stats, Kevin Love would be possibly the best player in the league, which we know he is not. From what I have watched, Griffin gets less contested rebounds. Although he does jump high to get them, sometimes he even makes an acrobatic play for them, DeAndre is often fighting with all the big guys tip after tip. Also, DeAndre’s hands have something to do with it. DeAndre obviously doesn’t have great hands because he drops the ball quite a bit, something Griffin wouldn’t do.
It's all good
Reasonableness prevails. But do try to watch Blake a little more closely and objectively. In the game where you were complaining on the game thread, I saw at least 2 instances where he got rebounds he had no business getting, with 2 or 3 Bulls in better position. There were stretches of the game where he wasn’t fighting as hard because he was gassed (thanks Vinnie!), but for the most part he was playing with a lot of energy that game and was fighting his ass off for rebounds on the defensive end. And I know, because I was 13 rows away from that basket while you were complaining.
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
Fair enough.
Thank you for widening my basketball knowledge, while making me think more critically through debate. Although times were heated, I always come out of some sort of debate like this happy. I’ll be sure to watch Griffin closer.
Right back atcha
Proudly enduring the pain since the days of Bill Walton's foot.
Now living the good life in Lob City, CA.
travel vs. jump ball
i thought the same thing watching the reply. even Ralph’s recap on the replay calling it a jump ball…a little hesitant to confirm it but whatever
IMO, the ref’s were making a call because something happened…but in the moment, in a close game, near the end….
did Jamal travel?..turnover ball to clippers, game basically decided on the ref
did Paul cleanly swipe it?…let them play…who knows what will happen, people might complain for a no call on the ref
did Paul foul Jamal? give the Blazers 3 FTs…making it an almost for sure 1 point game…possible bad call by the ref…Clipper fans would not be happy…
so whats the best thing the ref can do?…a jump ball. let the ball decide….and the basketball Gods said Clippers ball
remember refs can call a jump ball when they cant decided who the ball should go to. this seems to be one of those situations. doesnt always have to be when they are tied up
Ralph, "Last year so often with Blake Griffin you would see these things coming, with Paul, he's so crafty, all of a sudden boom there it is."
I hadn't thought about that...
Excellent post. I thought it was a good trade but I still had some doubts. I guess I just needed a little clarification on the finances of it all, not to mention the health issues. Thank you.
You're Welcome!
Since I wrote this seems like the Hornets are going to keep EJ out 2 to 3 more weeks to try and let his bruised knee heal. I suspect he’s hurt but it’s more the organization trying to get him healthy past all doubt for any new potential owner/buyer.
CP3
We are getting a look of a winner. After the trade some were crying about the EJ, CP3 trade and said we gave up too much. I mentioned that we traded players who haven’t proven they could win in the 4th qtr. for winners. Now we see the heart of CP3 and he will bring a new winning attitude to the clippers. If we crap out it won’t be because of him.
It was also mention the CP3 had bad knees and I mentioned that EJ has been injured and even Kaman so I hope all the whining has stopped on keeping players that would have kept us the same old clippers to potentially big time winners.
Now we also read that EJ and Kaman have sour grapes for being traded when told they were not. Yes they were told they were not being traded then the next day it opened up and the FO made the deal. So yea until it opened up the traded was dead. Their whining made me feel better about them leaving.
I look forward to an interesting and hopefully exciting season/seasons.

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