Clips Nation: FanPosts

Turkoglu Turnaround

2009-07-04T04:57:02Z

I'll mention right up front that this is over in the FanPosts because it has nothing to do with the Clippers. It's about free agency and relates to the Clips tangentially, but still. It's SP's site, and if he wants to move things over, awesome.

So Hedo makes a tentative deal with the Blazers, first reported, in a rather professional fashion, by uberbballblogger and Blazer fan Henry Abbott--kind of a minor question about supposed journalistic impartiality there, but things are moving quickly these days, and it's rather unfortunate that Abbott's story ended up falling apart. So he just wrote a nice retraction, comparing the tentative deal--emphasis on tentative--to buying a house. You make an offer, it's accepted, but both parties can get out of it for a period of time. These are big, expensive deals, and that's a good thing.

Anybody out there in Clipperdom reminded of a little deal that unraveled around this time last year? The FElton Fiasco still haunts us, and we shouldn't let this Turkoglu Turnaround go by without a nod at our own tumult last July.

This is a great coup by Toronto. The part that interests me is that it means that they can't sign Shawn Marion. I find Marion a talented but overrated player. For some reason I'm pulling for Lamar Odom to make a great deal, but I like the idea of a team taking Turkoglu and rejecting Marion. Okay, the reason to value Odom and hope for him to make a great deal is pretty obvious--it's to pry him away from the Lakers.

Marion was a prime beneficiary of the D'Antoni system and playing with Steve Nash. He can make plays all day long, run the floor, and he rebounds really well. It's interesting to put him into the conversation of Artest, Ariza, Odom, Battier and Turkoglu--and why not add Thornton to the mix. Or Blake Griffin.

This is also AGGT: Advanced Glue Guy Theory. One of the simplest ways to look at it is whether a player makes other guys on his team better. It's moving the ball, ball-handling, the ability to penetrate, to finish or dish, court vision. Turkoglu was very impressive in the playoffs. Of course, it helps quite a bit for him to play with Dwight Howard and Rashard Lewis, but he played some great basketball.

Portland gets to regroup. Maybe they'll sign Odom. Not sure what happens to Marion now. Marion was identified as problematic in Phoenix, when he wanted more credit for their success. It seems as if it was more about the coach and Steve Nash, and the system was a great fit for Marion. Not sure why, but I'm not feeling the need to wish him well, and I don't mind Portland missing out on a great player either.

About that other LA team

2009-07-04T02:01:28Z

I'm promoting Citizen Zhiv's excellent Lakers post to the front page - I'm not actually sure why Zhiv relegated himself to the sidebar in the first place. I have a couple of additional thoughts on Ariza/Artest as well. The story prior to these signings was that Ariza was disappointed that the Lakers weren't willing to go higher than the MLE. So it makes little sense that he would turn around and sign for the MLE with another team. But if Ariza was unwilling to give the Lakers a post ring discount, and the Lakers were equally unwilling to give Ariza a post ring bonus, it seems to indicate that things aren't all that wonderful in purple and gold. It does seem strange to have Ariza and Battier on the same team. I can't think of another team, really ever, who had two such glue guys starting on the wings - NBA teams almost ALWAYS have a primary scoring threat on the wing. What is TMac's status? Did they sign Ariza to the full MLE to come off the bench? Is Battier coming off the bench? Morey knows what he likes, and Adelman can coach, and Houston has been the single biggest over-achiever in the NBA for two straight years, playing competitively even as their mega-stars drop like flies - so it will be interesting to see what happens. But with Yao's injury, TMac's uncertainty and Artest gone, from a Clipper-centric standpoint it's hard not to think that a spot at the playoff table just opened up.

As for the Lakers, Zhiv hints at what I'll say outright - that team is loaded, and would likely be the favorite to win another title in almost any scenario. BUT the one thing that can screw up a loaded team is bad chemistry, and there's a boatload of that in Ron Artest's brain. He's the one guy in the NBA I would not have touched if I was Mitch Kupchak, talented as he is.

Zhiv after the jump.

Listened to a fair amount of commentary about the Artest-Ariza switch today. It's kind of funny how people become optimistic (!) when events change. Human nature I guess.

One way that it does make sense to me is if you look at Artest as a replacement for BOTH Ariza and Odom. He combines features of the two players, especially for defense and rebounding purposes, although he's not nearly the rebounder that LO is. The assumption here, of course, is that the Lakers don't resign Odom and have no intention of doing so.

It happens to be Odom's bad luck that he's a UFA in a horrible financial offseason. You know it's bad when people are freaking out at 5yr/50mil deals as if they're ridiculously expensive. People have pretty short memories I guess. Wait until the numbers start getting thrown around next year. And that's what LO should probably do, sign a one-year deal somewhere. He's a chump, and it would be extremely disappointing, if he signs a longterm deal with the Lakers for well below his value, at the 5yrs/40mil number that's being tossed around. A chump, because the Lakers would be valuing him at 80 million, only they would be paying half of that to him and the other half to the rest of the league.

Apparently no one notified most commentators on the Lakers about the "Glue Guy" concept. We're familiar with it here in Clipperdom because of Al Thornton's shortcomings. Thornton is no Artest, although he seems more rational and more of a solid citizen, but Artest uses his strength and size to play defense in ways that Thornton has never dreamed of.

But my question is whether the Lakers watched the tape of their own victory over the Rockets before they signed Artest. Houston was surprisingly competitive with the Lakers, taking them to 7 games as we know, going on runs and getting stops and winning games. Maybe it was just me, but the guy who seemed to stop Houston more often than not was Artest himself, not just missing shots, although he certainly did plenty of that, but because he was a black hole and once the ball went to him it didn't come out. Mark Jackson, commenting, kept saying that at times it was the fault of the Rocket pgs, because they needed to know to keep the ball out of his hands.

It seems clear that Daryl Morey, he of the careful breakdown of the Battier "intangibles," grabbed Ariza so quickly because he saw him as a young Glue Guy with upside, at a great price.

Does anybody think that Houston beats the Lakers in that series if Ariza (shooting well from deep) plays for the Rockets, and Artest (clanking and ballstopping) plays for the Lakers? The series itself won't be duplicated and Houston faces some new challenges, but did the Lakers ask themselves this question? And with Bynum less of a factor than might have been expected, what was the big difference between the championship Lakers and the team that lost to Boston: a healthy and effective Trevor Ariza.

The Lakers do have a good Glue Guy on their roster, and they're paying him a lot of money: Luke Walton. I don't know if it's underappreciated that the Lakers were able to start Ariza and bring Odom off the bench, but it made them an extremely formidable squad. Odom himself seems pretty gluey, by the way--something other teams should realize as he sits out there, available. If Odom leaves the Lakers would have a powerful starting lineup, with Bynum-Gasol-Artest-Kobe vaguely reminiscent of Shaq-Malone-Kobe-Payton. People talk about how well Phil Jackson handled Dennis Rodman, but Rodman was a very specific creature, and it's significant that he had zero needs on offense. Artest is a different story, and note the articles from Houston about how that team isn't going to miss him at all. At any rate, without Odom around, the Lakers Glue Guy (Walton) will be coming off the bench and he doesn't defend or rebound particularly well. Or does anybody think that Artest will come off the bench as peacefully as Odom did last season? You want a scorer like Thornton or an all-purpose talent like Odom coming off the bench anyway, not an Artest.

I'm actually surprised that the Lakers spent the money at all, and they may well be able to make a deal with Odom. As long as they have Kobe and Gasol they're going to be a great team. But there are a lot of great teams, and they'll have some significant new challenges with this latest move.

Clipper fans

2009-07-04T00:49:17Z

Moments ago, we created a special website for all Clipper fans to get together, and discuss the Los Angeles Clippers, and the rest of the NBA. Please check us out at http://www.LetsGoClippers.com and invite all your friends over!

It'ld be great if you guys can register and tell your friends about us. We are working on a new design right now! It's going to be sweet, please give us a chance!

Hedo Blazes a Trail West

2009-07-03T20:09:56Z

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4304805

What does this mean for Rudy Fernandez? Does this move take the Blazers to the next level? With plenty of movement so far in free agency, this summer has held nearly as much excitement as last.

With the Clippers still thin at the 3, is there a trade that could bring Rudy to L.A.? Would anyone even be interested in seeing this guy in a Clipper uni?

Best options for 7.3 M trade exception?

2009-07-03T07:51:11Z

So after the Randolph for Richardson trade, we'll have exactly one year to use a 7.3 M Traded Player Exception (TPE) before it expires. Assuming that we don't want to take on any players with guaranteed contracts in 2010, below are some teams over the luxury tax (~$68M) that we might be able to deal with (salary figures from hoopshype):

(1) HORNETS ($77.6 M total): Antonio Daniels (6.6M) + Julian Wright (2M) for TPE + Ricky Davis (2.5M). Daniels is useless now but Wright, although he regressed a bit this year, could provide us with a defensive stopper at SF.

(2) LAKERS ($90 M projected w/ Artest & Odom): Adam Morrison (5.3M) + Jordan Farmar (1.9 M) OR Shannon Brown (probably re-signs for 1-2 M) straight up for TPE. Not sure Lakers would do this deal-- but might be something to consider at mid-season if one of the two Lakers PGs falls out of the rotation, and if Taylor and Jones aren't playing particularly well.

(3) WIZARDS ($75.6 M total): Mike Miller (9.9 M) for TPE (only works if we're 2-3 M under salary cap). I'm not convinced that Miller's going to get much playing time, given all of the WAS wing players (Butler / Foye / Stevenson / Young / Crittenton), so Miller might be available fairly early in the season. If we don't re-sign Novak, then Miller could be someone we really need.

(4) JAZZ ($78 M projected w/ Millsap re-signed): Matt Harpring (6.5 M) + #1 draft pick straight up for TPE. Harpring hardly plays any more, and I think Utah has the Knicks #1 in 2010, so they'd probably be willing to give up whichever of their two pick is worse to save $13 M. Also, I think Harpring could be kind of useful on the Clips.

(5) KNICKS (as much as $80M w/ combination of Lee / Robinson / Kidd / Hill): Chris Duhon (6.0 M) straight up for TPE (don't think Knicks will be giving up more #1 draft picks). If Baron doesn't rejuvenate or gets injured again, Duhon might be a decent one-year rental.

(6) NUGGETS (up to $75 M with Anderson/Jones/Kleiza): Stephen Hunter (3.7 M) and Renaldo Balkman (2.0 M) straight up for TPE. Not really sure this is worth our while with Griffin but Balkman would be a pretty good backup PF.

[Actually, the Nugget I most covet is Kleiza-- I think it might be worth sacrificing some 2010 cap space to sign him to the MLE-- after all, if we really needed to, we could renounce Thornton in 2010 if Lebron or Wade came calling. As for 2009, I think Kleiza would be a better starting SF than Thornton.]

I guess if I had to pick the best way to use the TPE, it would be options (1) or (2) so that we wind up with Wright, Farmar, or Brown, each of whom I think could crack our top 8 rotation for several years to come. Mike Miller would be nice, too, though keeping him beyond next year would probably mean that we don't land a superstar in 2010.

Thoughts?

Getting Ahead of Ourselves

2009-07-03T04:41:21Z

I think everyone here is getting ahead of themselves with the whole 2010 thing. Yeah we now have a lot of cap space after trading Randolph and our future is looking bright. But we should worry about how to improve this season instead of the one after. When I read the comments and see most of you guys talking about our 2010 plan, I wonder "what 2010 plan?" cause really our future revolves around EJ and Blake right now. Instead of dreaming that one day, Lebron James or Dwayne Wade is going to be in a Clippers uniform, which they probably won't, we should discuss how to strengthen what we already got for this season.

I honestly can see a future in the playoffs this season if Blake Griffin lives up to the hype, Eric Gordon continues to improve, DJ and Mike Taylor start living up to their potential, Baron Davis become the team leader he was back in Golden State, and we are not hit with the injury bug like the last several years. We have a strong lineup this year with the subtraction of Zach Randolph, and I think we can be serious playoff contenders.

And yeah, I don't really mind the 2010 talk, but we should be focusing on the now instead of the future. Just my little 2 cents

David Lee?

2009-07-03T03:06:13Z

What's the possibility of landing David Lee to the Clippers if a team decides to do a sign and trade for Kaman?

Just wondering...

In that case, we can use David Lee at the 4 or 5. Possibly start at the 5 for a faster offense which Baron Davis can lead. He also can help add a lot of rebounds and is a better player than Kaman.

What do you guys think? Or am I just hoping for too much?

Ariza to Houston; Artest to Lakers

2009-07-03T02:07:32Z

A little bit of musical chairs.

Interesting, and possibly volatile, expenditure by the Lakers. Phil Jackson does a good job handling players, but it's still a bit of a head scratcher why they would pay a substantial amount, along with all the luxury tax, for Artest. I guess they think he has more skills and is more effective than Ariza, that he's worth the money.

Seems like there's a bit of an overlap in Houston between Ariza and Battier.

This is all a rather strange equation. I'm not quite getting it.

Ariza or Battier? Both could be possible.

2009-07-03T00:12:30Z

With Gortat going to DAL, this means HOU could still be interested in Kaman. We might still be able to land Battier, but then we lose a very critical big man at this point. Kaman and cricitcal don't usually belong in the same sentence, but for body purposes they do. With Artest going to LAL, seems like Ariza's only real suitors for more than the MLE POR, TOR, and maybe CLE. I heard the Raps are going after Turk, so is Portland. Maybe if the markey dries up, we can throw our MLE at Ariza.

So what's it gonna be, Battier, at the expense of a big, or Ariza without damaging our newly-created cap space?

Lakers Land Ron Artest

2009-07-02T22:59:20Z

It's a done deal. My inside source in the Lakers front office just confirmed to me that its a done deal. Read about it tomorrow.....

I think its a one year deal in the ball park of 7 million. If he performs well with no bad flare ups, they'll sign him to a long term deal. By than Adam Morrison comes off the books.

This makes sense because if Ariza is demanding a raise in the ballpark of 8-9 million he than he's competeing with Turkoglu, Odom and Artest. He's good but not that good.

The next step on the Lakers agenda is to lock up Lamar Odom.

Sorry no Clipper news

Clips Summerleaguer named best undrafted

2009-07-02T20:57:59Z

http://www.nbadraft.net/node/8379 names Deonte Christmas one of the best undrafted FA's.

"Perhaps the biggest surprise here. Christmas, a 6-foot-5 lights-out shooter, was projected as an early-second round prospect. His lack of athleticism was probably the thing that knocked him off the draft board, but there is likely still a place for him on an NBA roster. He's got an unorthodox release (but then again so does Michael Redd) which may have concerned teams. He also has great length, elevates well on his jumpshot and, after three years as a starter at Temple, is as ready for the NBA as any second-rounder. The (local - Temple) Sixers recently signed him to their summer league squad."

He's also playing with the Clippers though (after he's done with the SIxers in Orlando), but maybe he'll cancel if the Sixers offer him a guarateed deal.

On a side note: Yaric (you know the guy w/t Bugs Bunny Tie: former Clipper Hope Yaroslav Korolev) is on the Knicks roster (Along with Skeeta and Sene, it's quite the Bust-fest over there). I'm still rooting for the guy. It's not his fault Dunleavy Sr. likened him to his son and drafted him over Danny 'Supposed Knee issues" Granger. I see Korolev as a poor man's Turkoglu (as in Sudan-poor, not "I can only afford 2 IPODs-poor").

Trevor Ariza A Clipper?

2009-07-02T04:32:37Z

RealGM has reported that:

Trevor Ariza is on the verge of ending his tenure with the Los Angeles Lakers.

With at least five teams pursuing Ariza, the Lakers are currently unwilling to pay him more than the $5.6 million mid-level exception.

"They're letting him go," one of the sources said.

The Rockets, Clippers, Raptors and Blazers are also showing interest in Ariza. Portland and Toronto could each offer more than the mid-level exception.

Cleveland can offer Ariza the MLE.

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I think Trevor Ariza would be a great defensive boost if he can be signed. I think he would be able to command something in the 7 million a year range? What do you guys think?

The Z-Bo Gone Effect

2009-07-02T01:58:27Z

Thank you, Memphis!

With Zach Randolph heading east, the clouded clipper roster may soon take a more solid state. So what next?

MUST SIGN NOVAK

1. NOW, re-signing Novak makes sense. With Z-Bo, BG, Flippy, Camby, DJ and Skinner on the roster I could not see the Clips matching any offer to sign a guy that couldn't play the 3 spot. I just could not see it no matter how many times Perrin wrote it. But now with Skinner opting out and Memphis magically making Z-Bo disappear - THEY NEED TO SIGN NOVAK.

Why? Z-Bo oddly enough was the only other 4 who could shoot from outside with any consistency. He made quite a few 3s last season (his decision to launch those 3s not being debated here). But his corner 3s were an important part of the offense when he got pushed way out, or ended up there on a broken play.

As much as Phil thought Radman was a space cadet, I though Vlad filled a great role as a Clipper 4 who could shoot the long ball. Compared to Novak I think Vlad had a better slash and dunk move, but Novak seems to be a far superior shooter. Everyone remembers how deadly he was, but I also remember those games where he went 0 for whatever. Dunleavy may have the luxury of using him more wisely, taking him out of games where he's not connecting.

GIVE MARDY A CHANCE

2. Everyone can now calm down. Seems many Clip fans are worried about getting a gluey small forward. I say fooey to the gluey. I really, really liked the play of Mardy Colins and I have faith in him. He is still young and he is deceptively agile. I remember quite a few games where I watched him get by people in slow motion - almost like how Sam Cassell got by some guys - not everybody, but enough to make a living. I think he showed himself to be a decent defender and a willing passer. Give the guy a chance. Plus there's still that Thornton kid with so much potential...

SIGN FRED JONES

3.Why sign Fred Jones? See dunk vs. the Knicks @ Staples. How did no other team in the league sign him last year? Former slam dunk champ, able to knock down end of clock 3s over and over again. Remember his explanation of how he was so clutch? "I don't get the ball unless no one else has a shot and usually there's no time left to do anything but shoot it." Haha. Awesome. When Eric needs a breather Jones will be a perfect backup.

I WANT SHAUN BACK

4. Hey they're getting Q Rich back, let's make it a reunion tour and get Livingston back too! Wouldn't it be nice to see Shaun back in a Clipper jersey? He needs to finish what he started here in L.A. and make his comeback in front of fans that are really pulling for him. Plus I want to see all those crazy passes and lobs he used to throw to Wheezy, now going to Blake Griffin! Bullet passes, no look, behind the back, through the legs passes to Gordon, Blake, Camby, Baron.... 6'7" Point Guard out of Peoria, Illinois (The crowd roars!)

So in my semi-reality based dreams....My 2009-2010 Clippers!

PG: Baron Davis, Mike Taylor, Shaun Livingston
SG: Eric Gordon, Fred Jones, Quentin Richardson
SF: Al Thornton, Mardy Collins, Quentin Richardson
PF: Blake Griffin, Steve Novak, Marcus Camby
C: Marcus Camby, Chris Kaman, DeAndre Jordan

Benched in dress suit for entire season: Ricky Davis

Breaking News - Z-Bo for QRich CLOSE!

2009-07-02T00:36:24Z

These are from Eric Picnus of Hoopsworlds' Twitter:

EricPincusClippers/Grizzlies deal close5 minutes ago from TweetDeck

EricPincusRT @EricPincus: Clippers/Grizzlies deal close - Randolph for Q Rich - very close5 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Personally, I'd love to have QRich back in LA. We could use his three point shooting and Dun seemed to understand how to use him best anyway. He would shore up the 2-3 spot, be a fan favorite's return to LA and we'd free up room in the front court.

And seriously, we just need to move Z-Bo. That was a trade that never should have happened.

Villanueva, Gordon now officially Pistons.

2009-07-02T00:06:59Z

With Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon going to DET, I think now's the time to dangle Kaman for Tayshaun. There isn't much of a salary difference here, but the Pistons desperately need size, especially in the middle. McDyess and Sheed seem to be out of there anyway, and they've already lost Amir Johnson. I doubt Oberto is seriously in their plans, but if he is, it would only be in spot minutes like San Antonio. I'm not even gonna mention Ham-Hands.

Dumars just might be willing to overhaul more, and it seems like Gortat has already torpedoed our dreams of Battier joining up.

Clippers Summer League Roster.......

2009-07-01T23:24:37Z

Can anyone provide any information on the clippers summer league team roster?

Also I was thinking about going to Vegas to watch a day of games, wondering if it was worth buying court side seats???Tickets seem to be valid all day from 12-9 pm meaning that you can watch all 4 or 5 games that go on that day ?

Also check out the new Blake Griffin Blog update on THE ROOKIE on ESPN!!!!

Regarding the chatter

2009-07-01T15:43:28Z

ESPN has some rundown on the chatter since midnight last night. The big news in Clips Nation was Yao going down probably for at least the year. Most of us were hoping that we could swing a trade for Battier using Kaman or Camby as bait, but now word is the Rockets are going hard after Marcin Gortat. That would make a Clippers trade much more unlikely. Artest seems likely to stay and I think that would be a good thing for our chances, but maybe full on rebuilding mode would be better?

The Pistons on the other hand are making Villanueva their top priority which could bode well for their chances of trading Prince. Kaman for Prince still sounds good to me.

And Ariza apparently won't be giving the Lakers a home town discount. Maybe stay in LA but move over to Clipperland?

How about Matt Barnes?

2009-06-30T19:48:43Z

It seems like everyone is itching for a glue guy and in the event we can't snatch Battier away from Houston, how about going after Matt Barnes?

I see Barnes as a poor man's Battier. He can hit the open jumper and is a solid perimeter defender. He might not be as polished as Battier, but if the Clippers can pick him up in free agency I say bring him back. He only made $1.2 million in Phoenix last year and put up solid numbers, but didn't play amazing enough to earn a big pay raise so I think the Clippers can land him for around the same amount.

Plus, he has that UCLA and GSW connection with Baron Davis so I think he would actually WANT to come back to the Clippers.

What do you think?

Memphis wants ZBo? What about this...

2009-06-30T17:57:41Z

It just dawned on me that Memphis recently traded Darko for Q-Richardson - remember that fan-favorite with the two-fisted head pound? If Memphis really wants a scoring big like Zach Randolph (see article), what about:

Grizzlies get Zach Randolph ($14.7M)

Clippers get Quentin Richardson ($8.7M), Greg Buckner ($4M), and Darrell Arthur ($1M)

PROS:

ROY-to-be Blake Griffin will get major minutes at his natural position
Clips get some depth at the 2, 3 and 4 spots
Q's contract expires in time for 2010

CONS:

Zach Randolph is still a 20-10 guy RIGHT NOW
What if Griffin can't stay on the floor due to constant foul trouble (a la Oden)?

Poll

Should MD Sr. pull this trade?

New Z-Bo Possibility

2009-06-30T04:45:54Z

With espn.com recently reporting that Yao Ming's injured foot has not healed AT ALL, and that Yao could face the season on the sidelines, or worse...

The Rockets will be DESPERATE for a go to guy on offense. And if you really think about it Z-Bo compares very similarly to Yao Ming.

Both can be dominant on the offensive end

Both are almost worthless on the defensive end

So some way of doing McGrady's expiring deal for ZBO+whatever necessary to match salary (see Davis, Ricky)

That makes the Clips a HUGE PLAYER in the 2010 free agent market. Now, don't jump to criticize me...but...?

With McGrady+Camby+RDavis+Someone I might be forgetting...coming off the books is over 30M in salary

Would LeBron consider it? Just Consider it??????? L.A. Market...Kobe v Lebron hype potential. $$$$$$.

Tell me what looks better?

Jordan Hill/Eddy Curry-C

Al Harrington/Danilo Galinnari-PF

Lebron James SF

Nate Robinson SG

Some random PG (Probably a rookie) OK, or a broken down Steve Nash???

C-Kaman/DJ

PF-Griffin

SF-LeBron James/Thornton

SG-Gordon

PG-BDavis (completely revitalized by LeBron) Taylor (after his monster year this year)

Would LeBron THINK about it??