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David Friedman of the 20 Second Timeout provides a thorough (and thoroughly depressing) chronicle of major Clipper injuries, dubbing the Clippers the NBA equivalent of the Bermuda Triangle.  Most of us don't need to be reminded - we've lived through each and every one of these devastating injuries - but for recent immigrants to ClipsNation, there's some good history here.  I'm not sure what it says about the psyche of a Clippers' fan that we've lived through all this and stuck with the team.  Loyal?  Sure.  Bright?  Not so much.  

Manning (torn ACL 26 games into his Clipper career) and Harper (same injury, 28 games in) remain the quintessential Clipper injuries.  Quite frankly, the fact that EB played 6 relatively injury-free years for the Clippers before rupturing a measly Achilles (in the off-season no less) is barely worthy of this list.  

And am I the only one that has noticed that the team's acronym (LAC) is just another mangled ACL?  Coincidence?

So with no Elton Brand to start the season, how about we bring James Singleton back?  Ooops.  Too late.  Jumpin' James has landed on one of the top EuroLeague squads, Tau Ceramica (item dated Aug. 4), where they need to replace new Houston Rocket Luis Scola.  I really don't understand why Singleton didn't get more interest from NBA teams this summer, but then again I don't understand why he never got off MDsr's bench last season, so it seems there is much I do not understand.

Finally, I haven't really said anything about the Brevin Knight signing since it happened.  I guess I've had other things on my mind.  Anyway, in the couple of hours after we knew that Brand was hurt, but before we knew that Knight was signed, I said I didn't think there was any point to bringing in a 31-year-old point guard.  I still feel that way more or less, but at least they didn't commit too much money or time to him (2/$4M).  If nothing else, signing Knight makes it easier to deal Cassell to a contender for a prospect.  It's not difficult to make a case for Knight as the best free agent point guard to change teams this summer - I mean, I'd sure rather have him than Chucky Atkins or Smush Parker, both of whom signed for more money.  But as a leading Jared Jordan fan, I was kind of hoping the Clippers would take a chance on giving some minutes to a rookie from Marist.  Of course with the age of Cassell and injury history of Knight, Jared could still get some significant time.

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I'm sure a buyout of James's contract
could be arranged if they were so inclined, but we don't know the terms.  Plus, James dominated in the Euro leagues, and may favor that to being part of Dunleavy's team.

MBFGC is a good bet now, too.  Melvin Ely?  Webber just landed with the Mavs (thank goodness).

by mp on Aug 6, 2007 2:09 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

No Worries
I'm surprised you're not a little more upbeat about signing Brevin Knight.  Even as JJordan's booster, you don't need him to be the Clips 2nd string PG.  He's a rookie with a lot to learn, and he's playing behind two guys who don't exactly average 80 games a season.  That seems like the right mix, and it's a good mix for next year too if Liv can play again, because Cassell will be gone.  The idea is for Knight to hold down the backup spot for a couple of years, get his high rate of assists, play good defense, and then maybe your guy JJordan will be ready to take that backup PG spot, with Knight gone, playing behind a healthy Liv.

Any thoughts on Sofo?  I thought you were a Sofo guy.  With Brand out, why wouldn't they make a deal with him and take a shot.  There's a spot for an affordable two year deal that would be worth his while.  The Clips already have a respectable vet to plug in with Aron Williams, so they don't need another one of those guys, and they have Davis, Thomas, even YK, who will hopefully be a better version of Radman.  Plus you're the USA basketball guy, Clipper Steve, so you saw Sofo destroy EB himself along with the rest of Team USA.  Even in these difficult times, I'm happy with the Knight signing and am curious to see if anything happens with MBFGC.  It's kind of like the old days, when the Clips had the thinnest of hopes, and right now Chris Kaman is in the old Benoit Benjamin/Stanley Roberts/Olowokancer slot.  But having MBFGC out there would be fun, and what if he's good?

by zhivclip on Aug 6, 2007 2:55 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Just posted on MBFGC...
I was being obtuse until I read your comment and Lawler's Law above.

I like Knight... I just have trouble seeing this season as anything but lost.  So, yes, Liv/Knight/JJ is a good point guard rotation in 08-09 if all goes well, but that's already Knight's final year.  It just feels like a stop gap measure in a situation in which stop gaps are pointless.  Sorry.  I'll try to get in touch with my inner optimist.  (But as I said, the good news is that they didn't really overpay for Knight.)

As for MBFGC, let's hope Elgin is on the phone to Athens right now.  I was indeed very impressed with the guy during the World's in Japan - but there is that nagging problem that he's never really become a force in the EuroLeague, and his rebounding numbers are weak.  But you can't teach size, and he's incredibly quick for a guy that size, plus he's got really soft hands.  He's got the tools to be pretty damn good.

by Steve Perrin on Aug 6, 2007 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Friedman article....
...didn't even mention the Kerry Kittles debacle.
Most fans don't remember that the year before he signed with the Clips, he played in all 82 games for the Nets.

Which really makes this latest injury to Brand a blip on the radar. It will certainly give Lawler, who is without peer in his ability to make excuses for the team that employs him, lots of ammunition to explain away another poor season.

by saxmanager on Aug 7, 2007 8:34 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't you say bad things about Ralph!
Of course, he has had a lot of experience at describing poor performances.  I suppose you develop certain skills through repetition.

by Steve Perrin on Aug 7, 2007 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

ummmm
No one loves Ralph more than me, and I think he and Mike are a great, entertaining team, but I was really disappointed in them last season throughout the Maggette debacle.  It seems that they pick their spots as far as when they feel it's okay to question Dunleavy's choices and strategies, but it was deeply unsettling that they were drinking the koolaid, failed to make any noise about an unfolding disaster, and were actually part of the problem in last year's debacle.

They do a good job of criticizing Kaman, but it would be hard not to.  Their handling of the Chris Wilcox situation showed that they would follow Dunleavy's lead and could be extra critical of a player who's primary fault was a lack of playing time and the lack of confidence from the coach.  If Wilcox received the same support that Kaman did and an even hand based on productivity, the Clips could have been a better team in 03-04 and 05-06, but Dunleavy chose to focus on Wilcox's faults and wanted to develop Kaman.  So Ralph and Mike were quick to point out Wilcox's faults, and the only problem is that they make it seem like objective criticism of a (talented but flawed) player, rather than the direct result of a predetermined decision by the coach.  Kaman got to make innumerable mistakes and keep playing and keep starting, while Wilcox was put on an increasingly short leash.  I don't mind the way that it all turned out, but Dunleavy could have gotten a lot more out of Wilcox when he was here and Ralph and Mike could have done a better job of describing the situation.

I saw early on that the Wilcox mini-drama was a trial run for the Maggette debacle, but I really didn't want to believe it could happen, and it was much worse than I could have imagined.  And it's that much more upsetting because Ralph and Mike were a big part of it.  They never once, not once, suggested that the team would be better if Maggette started, that he had been the Clippers leading scorer before his injury and it might be a mistake to turn him into the so-called 6th man.  Instead R&M launched an aggressive 6th man of the year campaign for Maggs from day one, as if that was not only a genius move on MDs part, but completely obvious with no alternative strategy.  And at the same time R&M pushed just as hard to promote QRoss as a starting SG and obvious all-defensive team candidate, and they really couldn't have been bigger QRoss boosters.  It was kind of sickening, actually, especially as the team kept losing and getting behind early for no reason, and steadily gave up the glow of accomplishment and confidence and steered directly towards mediocrity and disappointment.  Ralph eventually found himself once again talking about the hapless Clippers, but he never mentioned the obvious and unnecessary reasons why they got there.

Even when there was no way to deny it anymore, and when it didn't matter because Liv and Cassell were hurt and MD was forced to finally start Maggette (pushed by Sterling to move beyond his bizarre antipathy, with the most promising season in Clipper history down the drain), R&M were still spewing the propaganda line, talking about how Maggette was playing his way into minutes and playing so much better than he had early in the season.  He played poorly in the beginning of the season because he was the 8th or 9th man and wasn't in the starting lineup.  R&M never questioned the decision that had caused the Clipper crash, and they continued to prop up QRoss when his limited utility was exposed in his more natural role behind Maggette and Mobley, and his minutes and small productivity slowed to a trickle.

It was a double standard of massive proportions and effects.  The interesting thing is how they will treat Maggette this season, and Dunleavy's decision making.  Beyond the Maggette debacle, R&M went along with Dunleavy's super short rotation last year, never using Singleton, Davis, and Korolev even in crisis, and giving Tim Thomas way too many minutes, not to mention Ross, and overplaying Mobley too.  With the Clips beginning the season without their best player, will R&M unconditionally support Dunleavy if he goes with a conservative strategy that leads to sub-mediocrity and a big pile of losses, and leaves young talent untried and undeveloped?

And all that being said, I love Ralph and Mike, I really do.  I just don't need them to sell the party line quite so much.        

by zhivclip on Aug 7, 2007 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The gist
He played poorly in the beginning of the season because he was the 8th or 9th man and wasn't in the starting lineup.

As soon as someone can explain how this makes sense, I'll be able to hear the haters.  Until then, its all an illogical mess.

Given that coming off the bench means that Corey was playing against, on average, inferior competition vs starters and doing so on fresh legs, how does it make sense that he "played poorly in the beginning of the season because he was the 8th or 9th man", unless it was because he was intentionally dogging it?  And if he was intentionally dogging it, why do you respect him?

Having seen Maggette play for so many years, my observation was that Corey WAS dogging it, and often.  Not necessarily physically, because that would hurt his personal stats, but definitely mentally.  It was clear to me that his time spent on the court was filled with indifference.  Why would a coach move a player who would hold back into the starting lineup?  This is further counter-intuitive.  Keep in mind, this coach guided the Jailblazers to the WCF and was one fixed quarter away from the Finals.  Corey's version of pouting probably doesn't even register.

Corey DID start playing better towards the end of the year for one reason alone:  he chose to.

Conservative play wins.  Mavs, Spurs, Jazz, Bulls, Pistons, Heat, the early 00's Lakers...on and on and on.  The opposite of conservative play is, well, this.  But then again, I do see a lot of commenters who long for that better time, pre-Dunleavy.  I'll pass.

by John R on Aug 7, 2007 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Response
In 04-05 Maggette averaged 22.2 points in 66 games while playing out of position at SG.  Before the 05-06 season Brand and Maggette were marketed as the Clippers complementary stars, and the big questions were whether Cassell and Mobley could be team players and good for chemistry, and Liv's injury problems.  And I should add that at this point I was in awe of Dunleavy, a 100% supporter, although I wasn't sure about his handling of Chris Wilcox, but he had done so many things so well that he was sitting on a giant pile of goodwill.  And at MD's urging, Brand shot out of the gate in fall 05 like a man possessed, and his handling of Cassell and Mobley was expert, chemistry was excellent, and the team was clearly at a new level.  They got off to a great start.  And Maggette was injured after 10-15 games.

We all know what happened from there.  I gave Dunleavy credit for getting Radman for Wilcox, and I'm not one of those who got stuck on the Ewing substitution, although having watched Dunleavy blow the 4th quarter against the Lakers he seemed to have a penchant for finding a way to lose.  But my belief is that you take the playoffs one step at a time, gain experience and learn how to win, and it seemed like the Clippers were on their way.  Maggette made some great contributions coming off the bench in the playoffs.

But I had certain Wilcox-era misgivings about MD's approach going into 06-07.  He didn't play Korolev in Russia, which seemed odd, and then didn't play him in the preseason, continuing to give big developmental minutes to journeymen wing players who would never make the team.  In general the Clippers didn't seem to be reacting well to their new status as an upper eschelon team.  I was still willing to give MD the benefit of the doubt, but from the beginning of training camp there seemed to be a gigantic double standard with Ross and Maggette:  MD badly wanted Ross to be a player that he was not, and wasn't going to give Maggette credit for being the player that he is.

I believe Dunleavy made an major error in judgment, and got way ahead of himself.  He thought the Clippers could be the Spurs and that Ross would be as effective as Bowen (Bowen made 89 3s last year, Ross made 2), and that Maggette could have the flexibility of a Ginobili or Jerry Stackhouse and do his damage in the 2nd and 4th quarters.  That was the plan, but it didn't take into account the fact that Brand, Kaman, and Cassell weren't the players they were the year before.  And it was aggressive and destructive psychologically to Maggette.  Instead of being sensitive, Dunleavy was stubborn.  And he sacrificed the most promising season in Clipper history because of it.

Basketball reflects basic human psychology.  Dunleavy was giving QRoss every opportunity, and at the same time he was expecting not just complete professionalism, but also psychological vitality from a player he was browbeating. When his plan wasn't working, he expected nightly cavalry charges from this player, while never showing any flexibility about making changes.  Maggette had seen what Dunleavy did to Wilcox, and he just didn't expect that he would receive that kind of treatment.  Ginobili was always an underdog, dark horse, and hustle/momentum player; Stackhouse was traded to a team that had a better player (Finley) at his position.  Maggette was a 20+ ppg starter who was trying to become an all-star alongside EB.  He thinks he can be Vince Carter or Paul Pierce if he's healthy.  He lost his starting job because of INJURY.  The Ross experiment might have worked, and it was worth trying for perhaps 5 games.   But it didn't, and how many times did we hear at the beginning of last year about the Clippers getting off to mysterious slow starts.  There were always excuses, Brand did too much in the offseason, the trip to Russia, Cassell and Kaman were banged up.  But there was never a solution, and never the obvious one:  put your best players on the floor, start the 20+ ppg scorer instead of the 5 ppg guy.

Maggette shouldn't have had to play his way into the starting lineup.  He had nothing to prove.  He obviously has the mentality of a scorer and a starter, that's who he is.  For any basketball player, sitting on the bench and losing minutes is difficult.  Maggette sat behind Odom, DMiles and QRichardson and earned his minutes the hard way.  He felt he had arrived, and he remembered going into the 05-06 season when he hoped to be an all-star.  And then, as the so-called 6th man, not only is the team getting off to slow starts, but Tim Thomas and Liv routinely go in the game before him.  Dunleavy keeps Ross and Mobley on the floor as much as possible, even when they're not very productive.  And Maggette plays on a very short leash, one or two bad plays and he's often out of the game and starters are back.  Some nights are better than others, but the main problem is the lack of consistency and a supportive atmosphere.  When you start, you know what the game is going to be like, how you like to try to get into your rhythm, who you'll be playing with.  Coming off the bench is completely different, and some players are naturally better at it than others.  Some are better at it by necessity, because they could never crack the starting lineup.  Dunleavy thought that Maggette could be that kind of player, but he was wrong.  And he was wrong about all sorts of other things, but he wouldn't change course, wouldn't give up.

Playing on fresh legs against inferior competition in the 2nd quarter is a more complicated equation than it seems.  My view is that Dunleavy created an environment and situation where he expected his starters to thrive and Maggette would be expendable.  MD was confused and willful when his starters failed to perform as expected, and the psychological gamesmanship with Maggette had reached a level of advanced toxicity.  With some guys you say you're the guy, I believe in you, and I know you'll do your best and work hard for me.  Dunleavy has done that to a remarkable degree with Kaman, he did it with Cassell and Mobley and got good results, and he worked well with Brand.  He stuck with Tim Thomas, and kept playing him through some very weak stretches, while Singleton, Davis, and Korolev got single digit minutes over the course of weeks.  And he simply decided to give his support and encouragement to Ross, while denying it to Maggette.  I think that and the historical context above explains how and why Maggette played poorly at the beginning of the season.  The reasons are primarily psychological, and don't seem illogical to me at all.  And it crushed Clipper fortunes and hopes and angered a lot of fans like myself.  But I also know that everybody sees players in different ways, and there's another side to this argument, and some people will always see Maggette as the problem, not the solution.

And this being the Clippers, irony takes the day.  So much of what MD coveted and loved has been taken from him:  EB, Liv's unlimited potential, Kaman's slow rise, eager innocence  and increasing focus.  And now he has little except for what he so actively rejected and disdained, a Paul Pierce-like star in Maggette, with no strategy left except to give him the green light.

by zhivclip on Aug 7, 2007 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your post is very insightful
And the point about the irony is so true.

I wonder whether MDSr was the reason why they held onto Livingston instead of trading him for AI.  I suspect so because he's such a terrible judge of talent.

by Jax on Aug 7, 2007 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um, no
John R (err, MDSr), enough of the silliness.  Please. The only one who's "hating" is you.  

Let's look critically at the situation.  I think that it is almost universally accepted that MDSr incorrectly benched and unprofessionally handled Corey Maggette, his second best player, and the team's second leading scorer, last year.  Corey played as well as he could despite the fact that he did not start as he should have.  As a result, the team tanked.  He was out there for much of the time with the second unit, such that it was.  Corey would come in at the end of the first quarter or beginning of the second quarter, invariably when the team was losing.  

The fact they were losing as a result is not surprising to those of us who understand the game since the Clips had only one consistent scorer out there to start the game.  That's not conservativsm.  That's stupidity.  Maybe MDSr thought that Kaman and Mobley would be proven scorers last year.  If he did, when it became obvious by 12/1 that they were not he should have moved then.  

Conservative play wins, John R?  Please explain what you mean by the term.  (I have a feeling that we'll be waiting a long time for your "explanation.")  The teams that you reference all have three proven scorers and multiple all stars.  Two proven scorers, at least, are in the starting lineups for all of those teams.  To contrast, the Clippers have no all stars, two proven scorers, and benched one of those.    

What's conservative about benching one of the two proven scorers on your team in favor of an inconsistent defensive stopper?  In short, it's not conservative, it's stupid.  Did that win for the Clippers last year?  Clearly the fact that MDSr was forced (by Sterling) to reinsert Maggette into the starting lineup answers that question.  

Do we really need to get into the Ewing / Raja Bell nightmare?  Great conservative play calling there.  

MDSr spent much of last year trying to get STerling to trade Maggette for his own son, MDJr. (i.e., nepotism).  Sterling told a friend of mine that he wasn't going to bow to MDSr's constant pressure no matter what.

IMO the Clippers should buy out MDSr as soon as possible and spend their money a real coach who commands the respect of the players and who doesn't make bonehead moves. Yes, MDSr opened up Sterling's checkbook but unfortunately he's squandered that opportunity.  Let's use this lost year to rebuild the entire team, including the coaching.

by Jax on Aug 7, 2007 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

All...
I am working on a long post on this subject right now (1800 words and counting so far).  

Please refrain from name-calling.  I think we are all baffled by some of the decisions from last year, and anyone who pretends they're not is fooling themselves.  That's one reason it's taken me so long to come out with my 'Maggette-festo' - I still don't get it.

I respect the opinions of Zhiv and John R and Jax and everyone else (OK, maybe not ClipperPain), and think there are good points being made all around.  But play nice.  You'll have my rantings to dissect soon.

by Steve Perrin on Aug 7, 2007 2:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Glad to hear it
Very happy that you're hard at work on your own Maggette-festo (!) after having spent so much time on my own, with very little prompting from John R. (okay, I guess there was plenty of prompting.)  Can't wait for it.  It's just an endlessly fascinating topic, there's no real answer to it, and it's laced with irony from top to bottom.  For me, the amazing thing is that I care and I'm curious again, after being so frustrated, disappointed, and disspirited last year.  

All that being said, John R. got us off the track here, and I'd love to see a comment on the initial tangent, the Ralph and Mike diatribe.  All a part of the same crazy quilt of confusion, your Los Angeles Clippers!

by zhivclip on Aug 7, 2007 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

1800 words
Looking forward to it.  I echo zhiv's sentiments.  I cannot begin to describe the depths of my disappointment over last year's debacle.  

by Jax on Aug 7, 2007 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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