Defusing and Refusing

by Steve Perrin on Jan 24, 2008 11:58 AM PST in News

For a couple of days I've been recommending that Clippers' owner Donald T. Sterling and Clippers' coach Mike Dunleavy Sr. kiss and make up. They both said a lot of dumb things. Sterling started it, which is bad, but he signs the checks so he's allowed to be bad. MD^sr escalated it and essentially called his boss stupid, which is not a good idea in any line of work. Anyway, the team has been great through all of this, staying above the fray and saying all the right things (unlike their bosses); and based on their play last night, they seem to have rallied around the coach.

And just as suddenly as it began, the owner and the coach ended the conflict. Based on reports in the AP, the Press Telegram and the OC Register, MD^sr and DTS spoke Wednesday and are 'on the same page'. All of these reporters based their stories on comments made by MD^sr at Wednesday's shootaround. So that's that. Case closed. Everything's fine.

Only apparently it wasn't true.

The LA Times got to Sterling at halftime of Wednesday's game to follow up on MD^sr's 'same page' statement. According to Jonathan Abrams:

When asked during halftime at Staples Center if they had patched things up, Sterling said: "He said what?" before shaking his head, shrugging his shoulders and declining to address the situation further.

After the game, Dunleavy cleared things up, saying he called Sterling three times and spoke to his wife, but did not reach the owner. In fact, he said he had spoken with one of the team's high-ranking officials, who told him that the owner and the coach shared the same goals and should bury the hatchet.

I'm tempted to dust off the old chestnut concerning exactly where the hatchet might be buried.

This is all pretty lame. MD^sr, trying to do the right thing and defuse the situation says 'everything's cool', a major improvement over his 'let me make all the decisions and I guarantee we'll win, no one's a better coach than me' tantrum on Tuesday. Only in the process, he tells, well, a lie, about speaking to Sterling, which is, after all, a big part of the problem. Whether or not they actually spoke is not an insignificant detail here.

Sterling, presented with what amounts to an olive branch from the coach (delivered by a reporter, but delivered nonetheless), takes the olive branch and using it as kindling to re-ignite the smoldering wreckage of their relationship. Sure, the information was wrong and he was caught off guard. He couldn't think on his feet fast enough to say 'No comment'?

Here's a bigger issue. Monday you trash your coach. Tuesday he trashes you. And Wednesday YOU WON'T TAKE HIS CALLS!?!?!? WTF? Is Sterling a 14 year old girl breaking up with her boyfriend? 'Tell him to stop calling me! I never ever want to speak to him again! Why is life so unfair?'

What happened to 'get the liars in the room?' What happened to 'the fish still stinks the next day?' (Oh that's right, those are my managerial catch phrases but apparently not DTS'.) Wow.

Nobody likes to be made to look like an idiot, which is exactly what DTS did to MD^sr in this situation. On Tuesday I joked that Sterling had finally taken a call from reality. Forget reality - take a call from the guy you owe $17M.

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Is Dunleavy planning to leave or get fired?

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Kahn_Games/2008/01/24/Is_Dunleavy_tired_of_being_the_apprentice

by laclipperfan42 on Jan 24, 2008 12:07 PM PST reply actions

Its a valid take

Dunleavy made his comments clearly without fear. I don't agree that Dunleavy was saying that he is the best coach in the universe in reference to, "It's his team and he can do whatever he likes . . . but look, you can find any coach you want, bring him in here and run the situation. But I don't think they are going to do as good a job as I do." I think thats an overread. He is clearly saying if you fire me now you won't find anyone to come in and do a better job. And that's objectively true. The chain of events that would ensue would mean the Clippers might not land a bonafide NBA coach for...well what was the gap between Brown and Dunleavy?

And what does MDSr. have to lose? He's paid. He WILL get another job and another high salary. Contrary to some segments of Clipperdom's (and Lakerdom's) view of him, go around the league and you will find that he is a very well regarded coach. He would get run standing up for himself and during a time when rational people shouldn't be blaming him for the results this season. Getting himself fired now is win/win for MDSr. Hence, the complete lack of fear.

Clipperblog believes there may be posturing involved. I agree but I don't necessarily hold KA's rosy view of that posturing. Dunleavy daring Sterling to fire him is definitely a different kind of posturing. And I still contend that Sterling would like to quit, minimum salary restrictions notwithstanding which is a posture with a different lean.

by John R on Jan 24, 2008 12:36 PM PST up reply actions

I don't buy it...

Thanks for posting the link. Interesting read.

I'll tell you why I don't think MDsr is angling to get fired. He's got way more invested in a Brand-Kaman-Livingston team than any of us. As badly as we want to see those guys on the floor, he wants to coach them a million times worse.

Don't forget that Kaman was his first draft pick as Clippers coach and Livingston was his second. When Kaman's contract was looking like a mistake (even if the pick still wasn't too bad), and Korolev was gone and Livingston was in a hospital bed, his record was looking really bad. He feels vindicated on K2's deal - he wants more, I guarantee it.

To John R's point, I didn't find that quote to be the arrogant one. It was this one: We are in a great situation as long as basketball people around here make the basketball decisions. As long as I am here, I'll take full responsibility for it, and I guarantee you everybody is going to be happy. For one thing, although he starts with 'basketball people' he finishes with the first person singular, cutting Elgin out of the decision making in the process. For another, there are no guarantees, and I know lots of people who weren't so happy last season when he was mostly getting his way on decisions. He was mad, it was a silly thing to say, I forgive him. But that was pretty friggin' arrogant.

Was Sterling's interview with Simers the opening salvo in a PR war? Well, yeah, of course it was. Why else talk to a reporter? Was it a wise opening salvo? Will it have the desired effect? We'll see.

If Dunleavy isn't angling to get fired, then why did he respond in so impolitic a manner? I don't think he had thought it through. He felt he was unjustly being attacked (he was) and he took a couple of retaliatory swings. He's from Brooklyn - I get the impression that's just how he rolls.

by Steve Perrin on Jan 24, 2008 1:29 PM PST reply actions

I'm not convinced he's trying to get fired

But I do think in that moment, he was comfortable with that outcome.

There is little question to me that he WANTS to be GM/Coach. If saying if you let me make decisions I will take responsibility is arrogance, I'm comfortable with that arrogance.

by John R on Jan 24, 2008 1:43 PM PST up reply actions

That's a great point...

If we're going to overanalyze this and look for hidden motives (which is, like, what we do here), that seems more like the way he's going. 'You're right Donald, someone needs to be fired. Hint, Hint.'

by Steve Perrin on Jan 24, 2008 1:49 PM PST up reply actions

Good point

I think MDsr wants Elgin's job...allowing Cassell to be player/coach...I think MDsr would make a better GM in this league than he does as coach.

by Lawler's Law on Jan 24, 2008 4:27 PM PST up reply actions

More info?

Roeser did it.

by John R on Jan 24, 2008 4:08 PM PST reply actions

A reasonable explanation...

OK, so Roeser and MDsr decided that since communication between the two had taken place, he could say they spoke when in fact they hadn't. That's fine.

It would be nice if Sterling could confirm it all.

by Steve Perrin on Jan 24, 2008 4:43 PM PST up reply actions

I think

based on his reaction as reported in the papers that Sterling already denied it. He's tired of the shenanigans, as are many of us.

by Jax on Jan 24, 2008 5:52 PM PST up reply actions

He has a choice...

The way Abrams reported it amounts to a denial. But he could actually say something and settle the issue. Of course, if he doesn't, then he's leaving MDsr out to dry, and he knows that.

But if he's really that tired, then he should fire the guy and get it over with. Calling him out and embarrassing him doesn't really serve a purpose.

by Steve Perrin on Jan 24, 2008 9:10 PM PST up reply actions

I don't think

DTS operates that way. My reading of his reaction is that this is something he's been dealing with for a while. Again, if I were DTS, I'd hire a new GM first and go from there. He seems to need some guidance.

by Jax on Jan 24, 2008 9:37 PM PST up reply actions

I agree

If he wants to shake things up, GM is the obvious place to start. It doesn't cost him guaranteed money, it sends the message. And let's face it - Elgin has not been great.

Of course the problem is, if he truly dislikes MDsr also and wishes he could get rid of him but just doesn't want to spend the money to do it... firing Elgin has the net effect of consolidating more power for MDsr, who would try to dominate the new guy.

On another thread someone suggested firing Elgin, moving MDsr to GM, and hiring a new coach. That's actually kind of interesting. Kurt Rambis anyone? Player coach Sam Cassell?

by Steve Perrin on Jan 24, 2008 9:50 PM PST up reply actions

I suppose there are many ways to play this

and contrary to popular belief DTS is not stupid. He can always try to do something that would either cause MDSr to do something that would get him fired (arguably) for cause, thereby voiding the contract, or MDSr isn't happy working under the GM asks for a compromise buyout.

The problem that I have with making MDSr GM is that he's not a great evaluator of talent. Their draft picks (which he's had a hand in) have been far below average. Yes, he picked Kaman, but he also picked Korolev and numerous others. Would you really characterize Livingston as a good pick? I don't. This is a man's game, and the Clippers can do better. This is a man who as a coach has a below .500 career record despite being handed two teams loaded with talent. He's not diplomatic at all and way too defensive. He also lets his ego get in the way and lets player-coach conflicts fester. Why would you want someone like that running your $200 million team?

I woudn't necessarily fire EB, out of respect for the years of service that he's put into the team. I'd probably retain him in a consultant role and bring in a younger up and comer.

I suspect that DTS is the kind of guy who detests paying $5 million a year to someone he doesn't respect. If his recent behavior is any indication, he's just about had it with MDSr.

As an aside, I've heard that he DTS bought the team for something like $16 million. Doofus indeed.

by Jax on Jan 24, 2008 10:27 PM PST up reply actions

What do you think?

About the Roeser situation?

The obvious read is that Sterling still doesn't care, but for profit. He doesn't talk to folks on the basketball side of things. Roeser knows how much they are allowed to spend and clearly has the power to enforce it. Does this sound like a man who is unconditionally about winning to you?

by John R on Jan 24, 2008 11:17 PM PST up reply actions

I don't understand your point

There's nothing obvious about that. What do you want DTS to do? He signed MDSr to a long term contract at over $5 M / yr. He didn't have to do that. He signed EB to a long term deal. He didn't have to do that. He re signed Corey. Didn't have to do that. He signed Mobley for a fat contract. Didn't have to do that. He signed TT. Didn't have to do that. He paid Kaman big bucks. Didn't have to do that.

He put his trust in management. Frankly, they let him down. He's not happy. Yes, injuries hurt too, but there are a host of other issues. His reaction is reasonable. You might not agree, but it's reasonable. Do I condone his public display of his displeasure? No, but it's his team, not mine. He can do what he wants.

I'm going to take DTS at his word for now. Again, however, he needs seasoned advisors, which he simply does not have right now. We'll see what happens.

by Jax on Jan 24, 2008 11:42 PM PST up reply actions

By the way, they

are close to the cap. What exactly is it that you want them to do? The problems they have is not lack of spending but injuries, bad coaching and incompetent management.

by Jax on Jan 24, 2008 11:45 PM PST up reply actions

I would hate to see Dunleavy leave

I know Dunleavy has made some questionable coaching decisions as the Clippers coach such as opting not to foul Raja Bell during the final seconds of overtime in game 5 of the playoff series against the Suns but I would hate to see him leave. I mean he is the only coach that has been able to influence Sterling into spending money on this franchise and acquiring players to help the Clippers win. None of the other previous Clipper coaches ever came close to convincing Sterling to spend money on his players. Had it not been Dunleavy, the Clippers would not have Brand, Maggette, Mobley, Cassell etc. My point is MDsr has done a lot to help this franchise shed its reputation of losing. If he leaves, the Clippers would be back to where they were before, a bad organization with a very stingy owner.

also, the answer to John R's question about what was the gap between Larry Brown & MDsr as Clipper coaches is 10. Brown left for Indiana after the 1992-1993 season and MDsr was hired the summer before the 2003-2004 season.

If Dunleavy leaves, the Clippers would probably be bad for another decade. Yikes!

by laclipperfan42 on Jan 24, 2008 6:06 PM PST reply actions

Rhetorical questions

Are a beautiful thing.

by John R on Jan 24, 2008 11:13 PM PST up reply actions

It lools like MDSr

has realized the error of his ways (i.e., that insubordination could get you fired without getting paid the rest of your contract):

From the LA Times:

"Dunleavy said Thursday he regretted firing back at his owner through the media. "If it happens again, there won't be a response from me about it," he said."

MDSr still doesn't seem to realize, however, that he as an employee shouldn't be broadcasting these issues publicly:

LA Times:

"He has no idea, though, when he would talk to Sterling. "It's kind of up to them," Dunleavy said. "I haven't talked to him. I haven't gotten a chance to talk to him.""

The Times went onto say that DTS wasn't very pleased with MDSr's reactive invitation to fire him. To be continued . . .

by Jax on Jan 25, 2008 11:32 AM PST reply actions

Another review

The Roeser issue just shows that the Clippers are still entirely capable of junior high level absurdity. Dunleavy has a hair trigger and can be overconfident and stubborn. But Sterling is still the prizewinner, since he hasn't made the effort to speak to Dunleavy on his own.

That being said, it seems highly doubtful to me that anybody is going anywhere (except maybe Sam Cassell). Sterling isn't going to cut Dunleavy loose and pay him--Sterling obviously has a pretty strong sense of the value of a dollar. It's just too much money at this point, and I'm sure Sterling would rather shut up and be grouchy and let Dunleavy take his chances for the next year, while getting some value out of the next 8 million or so of MD's contract.

My belief is that a big issue is going to be EB's opinion of Dunleavy, and it sounds like EB is going to give MD the benefit of the doubt--for now. DTS' priority is to pay EB and get him to stick around, I would think, and EB is a solid citizen and then some, and he wins games and puts people in the seats. At this point DTS would clearly choose EB over Dunleavy, for the longterm. That's why it's important for EB to come back, and the last 25 games or so will be critical for the future. EB will undoubtedly enjoy playing alongside K2, and we'll have to see how MD manages the end of the season and the rest of the team. EB needs to be convinced that it's worthwhile not to opt out and stick around for another year. He might even be convinced to sign the longterm franchise player deal, but I think he'd want to wait and see how the team fares in 08-09. All of that, and MD's own pricetag, should buy MD a fair amount of time. And it should be remembered that MD picked up some lost credibility when Kaman emerged.

Baylor has been around forever, and the team would still be on the upswing if it wasn't for the injuries. He also provides a filter for MD and Sterling, although it appears that Roeser plays the same role.

by zhivclip on Jan 25, 2008 11:37 AM PST reply actions

Sterling the owner/fan

It's weird and funny to say it, but I find that I'm agreeing with Sterling on most of the personnel issues. I think Sterling is simply seeing some things from the basic point of view of the average highly interested fan, but it just so happens that he owns the team.

The latest news item in this week's controversy is that DTS was angry when Quentin Ross started the second half against Sacramento, and Thornton, after playing great in the 2nd quarter, was on the bench. This is a little complex--I don't think that the Clips have played Thomas, Thornton, Maggette, and Kaman at the same time all year, and it's hard to say that a game that was close at halftime was the place to start. Kim Hughes was saying that they wanted to stop the Kings' 3 pt shooting, and they were going to need MORE Q Ross in the second half. We all know that starting Mobley is the first step of the solution to the QRoss problem, and I'm all for starting Thornton over Tim Thomas.

So yeah, it's more complicated than it might seem, but DTS is basically saying why is Ross playing so much, and why isn't Thornton playing more? And it so happens that I completely agree with that sentiment.

And then there's agreement on the background issues. Until the beginning of this season I was worried that the Clips had overpaid Kaman and didn't need to give him an extension--and I would have been a lot more worried if it had been my own $50 million. And the pesky, lingering QRoss problem was much much worse last year with the weird Maggette conflicts. The simple approach--just try starting Maggette, and let's see how it goes--was shockingly difficult to get out of MD, and it seems DTS finally had to force the issue. Once again, I'm in basic, fundamental agreement with DTS. And right now I find it annoying that Ross is supported, given minutes and rewarded, more or less, for subpar, below average play, while other players are on a short leash and can play great but see no reward.

Feeling you, DTS. I know the situation is more subtle and detailed than these broad strokes, but it seems to me that DTS, with all of his basketball ignorance, isn't really too off the mark.

by zhivclip on Jan 25, 2008 11:58 AM PST reply actions

You're right, Zhiv

And implicit in all this is that DTS' level of interest in the team is clearly still very high, which is encouraging to us fans. However, we likely have a very short window here. I continue to believe that DTS needs a strong, up and coming GM to effectuate his desires. Baylor isn't strong enough to deal with MDSr and his issues. Roeser isn't the guy, and MDSr, well, enough said.

Said another way, I fear that we will not see the necessary substantive changes in Clipperland because DTS does not apppear to have the inside basketball knowledge and contacts to go out and hire a great GM on his own, and Baylor/Roeser/MDSr ain't gonna assist him for obvious reasons.

by Jax on Jan 25, 2008 12:20 PM PST up reply actions

I guess that what I'm saying here

is that if we really want to fix the clippers we need to get a new, young, competent GM in place first. This will force managemnt to act professionally, hire an up and coming coach, attract free agents, evaluate talent, increase the fan base, and do whatever else successful basketball teams do.

That's my entry - hire a good, young, competent GM.

by Jax on Jan 25, 2008 12:30 PM PST up reply actions

Re:

Why does he have to be young? Shouldn't competent be the deciding factor?

by Phil Gurnee on Jan 25, 2008 12:48 PM PST up reply actions

You're right - the GM doesn't have to be young

I suspect, however, that a younger GM may be more motivated to make the long term changes that I believe are necessary.

by Jax on Jan 25, 2008 12:56 PM PST up reply actions

Fine idea, but not realistic

I think that bringing in a GM who has some fresh ideas and who can challenge Dunleavy is a perfectly good idea, but it's not going to happen.

My guess is that Baylor is in good shape for the length of Dunleavy's tenure. If the Clips flounder and MD seems to be truly responsible or a lightning rod for the blame, I could see him getting fired towards the end of his contract. But Sterling is not going to throw away the money. And as I said, my guess is that the decision will follow from how Brand, and to a lesser extent Maggette, respond to Dunleavy's performance over the next year and how well the team does.

But if the Clippers are struggling and DTS throws away millions of dollars on firing Dunleavy, chances are that he'll keep Elgin in place and Elgin and Roeser will figure out who the next coach should be. In this scenario, the thing to look for is the availability of some great coach, with that availablility corresponding to the Clippers doing poorly. In which case, it would be difficult to make a deal with this mystery coach.

Why not cut Baylor and Dunleavy both loose and just start over? It could happen, but it seems unlikely. Part of it is that it sounds like DTS is taking responsibility for the team's horrendous performance during the first 20 years of his ownership--he realizes now that he was setting the wrong guidelines and approaching the financial issues the wrong way. Of course, he says that now that the team plays at Staples, and knowing that the basic market value of the team was growing at a fantastic rate over that time. Now things have changed--if he wants the value of the team to increase, along with yearly profits, they have to be good, win games, and go to the playoffs. So things have changed. But DTS is taking the blame for the years of losing, and this lets Elgin off the hook. Even a great GM like Jerry West couldn't have succeeded under Sterling's guidelines--but West never would have worked in a broken basketball system like Sterling's Clippers.

All that being said, I'll tell you what I think is going to happen. I think things are going to settle down, the Clips are going to play better and win some games, EB will come back and the team will look good. Barring injury, the Clips will battle their way to the playoffs next year. EB will be signed as a franchise player, they'll make some moves, nothing too radical, and will stay the course and compete. Dunleavy will take Baylor's job and Dunleavy will hire a coach to replace himself. Will the Clips win a championship? Maybe, maybe not, but if it weren't for the injuries they would still be on a significant upswing, and Kaman's emergence is a major development. We'll see what happens with Cassell. Next comes Brand and K2 playing together. Then we see what's up with Livingston. And after all that, we get to see what happens with Maggette. It's all going to take awhile to unfold.

by zhivclip on Jan 25, 2008 2:44 PM PST up reply actions

I highly doubt MDSr will ever be GM

by Jax on Jan 25, 2008 2:50 PM PST up reply actions

Good Point

Highly unlikely right now, but could change over time if the Clips do really well next year.

by zhivclip on Jan 25, 2008 3:31 PM PST up reply actions

Do you think its weird

For the owner to question the coach as his Generic Team is blowing out an opponent that was assumed to be quality coming into the match?

Q was in the game because he turns Kevin Martin into his average twin.

I think its weird.

Though I suppose it could be coincidence that a guy who is averging 24 points on 46% shooting, 9 FTA and 2 turnovers per game this season, only scored 11 on 27% shooting, only got to the line 5 times and turned it over 3 times and had zero assists. But it was the same thing last year as well.

MDSr. understands power. Letting the owner dictate basketball decisions is a loss of power that would be the beginning of the end anyway. He'd probably rather be fired for doing what he wants rather than listen to someone who has shown consistently for 2 decades that he knows nothing about winning basketball and said as much in the paper the other day. I would too. I let experts do their expert thing.

by John R on Jan 25, 2008 2:29 PM PST up reply actions

For Sac this was the 2nd of back to backs

An away game. Second game for KMartII back in the starting lineup after injury. If you saw the game, you would see that the Kings looked tired and that it wasn't just KMart who didn't play well or shoot well. It was the entire team other than Brad Miller. Sometimes stats don't tell the entire story.

No - owners question their coaches all the time. The fact that the coach was just caught lying publicly about the owner didn't help.

Just curious - what precisely does MDSr know about winning basketball? He's got a sub .500 lifetime record (despite being handed two talented teams).

by Jax on Jan 25, 2008 2:47 PM PST up reply actions

Not exactly right

The way I read it, DTS was upset when MD started Ross in the second half, after Thornton had played so well in the second quarter. It's worth noting that there was no statement that he was criticizing MD during or about the blowout--he was upset about the 2nd half starting lineup, when the Clips were only up by one at halftime.

Another detail is that Kim Hughes said at halftime that they were going to need "more minutes for Q Ross," it was because Garcia had hit 3 3s, which is what was keeping Sac in the game.

I'm in the middle on all of this. I don't think Dunleavy is the root of all evil and a horrible coach. He's a stubborn hothead, but that's okay. I'd just like to see him be more flexible and get more out of the talent on his roster. And I don't like his double standards. I also think the Maggette issue is a tossup at this stage, and Maggette's play this year has not been so extraordinary that he deserves to be "a Clipper for life," especially not at an exorbitant salary level.

And I also see a huge value in QRoss and think he's a very solid player and a great addition to the roster. At this point, when Ross is clearly struggling, I'd like to see Mobley in the starting lineup. But I would have been very happy to have seen Mobley sit out games 5-15 and have Ross start all of those games. I talked about how there's no direct correlation between Thornton more, Ross less. Tim Thomas is the primary culprit in the Thornton problem. I might also mention that Diaz should be getting minutes while Ross is struggling, and that would be a lot easier if Mobley was a starter. Josh Powell--who has a 3 year deal--is doing some very good things now that he's getting some real minutes, and it would be good to see what Diaz can do.

All that being said, keeping Kevin Martin bottled up is obviously crucial and a big accomplishment. So yeah, I like Ross, but would Mobley do so much worse, or would it be so bad to bring Ross off the bench if someone is killing the Clips--the same dilemma as last year. Should be interesting to see how things go with the Hornets very shortly. Is Tim Thomas going to do so much better on David West that Thornton shouldn't start?

by zhivclip on Jan 25, 2008 3:10 PM PST up reply actions

Thornton did much better on West

last time West killed Thomas, but was quiet when Thornton was in. Probably more coincidence than anything - I would have thought Al was too small to handle West. but there's no denying that's what happened.

by Steve Perrin on Jan 25, 2008 3:29 PM PST up reply actions

The thing is

We only know what did happen. We can speculate all day on what might have happened if. But what did happen is Ross did what he did and we all got to enjoy some nice positive garbage time for a change.

Just seems a strange day to blast a coach.

by John R on Jan 25, 2008 3:33 PM PST up reply actions

Again

I don't want to get in an argument with you--I'll leave that to Jax and I'm generally supportive and in agreement with your approach to things, and just want to find the middle ground--but again I think there's a notable distortion here.

Sterling "blasted" the coach to Simers on Monday at the Utah game--which was a listless defeat, by the way (though I didn't see the game). Dunleavy punched back afterwards and then again the next day. On Wednesday MD cleared the air with the team, and prompted by Roeser, he told the media he had spoken to DTS and it was all okay, which wasn't true. And then, apparently, DTS was pissed when Ross started the 2nd half against Sac and Thornton was on the bench.

So yes, Ross did what did. We got to see some garbage time, which was awesome. Ross also failed to score again, but that's not so important.

And more importantly, DTS didn't return Dunleavy's calls and didn't make the effort to talk to him. It was a very strange day to do that, that's for sure. And it wasn't, as it turns out, a good day to be pissed off about the 2nd half lineup, since the game turned out to be a blowout.

Sterling is a buffoon and worse. That's why I find it deeply troubling that I agree with him at all. But he didn't "blast" the coach in the middle of a blowout, at least not that we know. We shouldn't have to pay any attention to Sterling at all--he should just be a happy, smiling, supportive guy, especially if he's going to get over the primary problem and not be a cheapskate. So I blame Dunleavy for stooping to his junior high, buffoonish level, and for not doing a little better with an injured team so that DTS could keep quiet.

by zhivclip on Jan 25, 2008 3:51 PM PST up reply actions

What exactly

is your basis for calling DTS a "buffoon"? That's a strong statement. He may be cheap, tough, difficult to deal with, and many other things, but I'm not sure it's fair to call him a buffoon. By the way, I find it odd that you would support a team owned by someone that you believe is a "buffoon."

by Jax on Jan 25, 2008 5:07 PM PST up reply actions

He's something of a mess--a successful mess

DTS is definitely a buffoon--and worse. He's also a creep. He's a great businessman, with a solid, spectacular real estate program that I would advise any young person with capital to emulate--I'm a big fan of "never sell."

But if you remember the Sports Arena teams, and the whole ethos of that era in Clipper history, "buffoon" seems to be an apt description of DTS as an NBA owner. It wasn't just that he was cheap and "difficult to deal with." He was also just incredibly clueless about basketball, and he treated the games and the team like it was a place to hang out with his cheesy Beverly Hills groupies. The whole gold chain/suntan package seems buffoonish to me, when your team is absolutely pathetic and going nowhere. When you're Jerry Buss and Pat Riley is slicking his hair back and Norm Nixon is wearing a blade around his neck, it's cool--dated now along with short shorts, but cool. Sterling admits as much himself, that he was a mess as an NBA owner, from every standpoint except watching the value of the franchise keep climbing while he spent as little on the team as possible.

He's a creep because of some of the sleazy stories about lawsuits, etc. But that's just basic Beverly Hills rich guy stuff, and Buss seems fairly creepy at this stage too. Whatever: rich people are different from you and me.

I said that I was troubled because I was on the same wavelength with DTS. I think he's doing better, and I actually think Dunleavy has been a good influence on him and Baylor, bringing great professionalism and NBA savvy to the team. I think MD has pushed things too far and he's part of the problem. But Sterling seems buffoonish when he doesn't go out of his way to return Dunleavy's calls and talk to him after the Tuesday flap. He's being petulant, if you want to be specific, and petulance spread across the front page of the LAT sports section equals buffoonery. Kobe Bryant was a buffoon over the summer.

I support the team because of the players, because I like the idea of the plucky gang of misfits that gets no respect going from zero to hero and winning it all and knocking off the evil empire of phonies with the corrupt spoiled star in the process. There are a ton of fans in the Nation who love the team and hate hate hate Sterling and see him as the source of its endless failure. I'm a middle ground, forward-looking, balance and harmony guy for the most part, and I like Sterling's seeming growth and evolution, but he remains quite capable of lame behavior. But the team is on a track to start winning, and as we can see in hindsight with the 80s examples, things look a lot better when you're winning.

by zhivclip on Jan 26, 2008 8:14 AM PST up reply actions

Very well put...

Nothing to add.

by Steve Perrin on Jan 26, 2008 9:03 AM PST up reply actions

Thanks Zhiv - couple of points

First, I certainly appreciate why it is that you like the Clippers.

Second, I am not sure that it's fair to call someone a buffoon because of what you read in the newspaper about something that someone else said he did or didn't do. I would submit that it is unfair to judge someone in such circumstances before you get the whole story. In this case, we really have very little information about the interactions between the parties. I would suggest that we reserve judgment until we get all the facts.

The backstory on how DTS used to run the Clippers is not that he was a mess but that he was making more money off of revenue sharing and not investing in the team than he would have made had he tried to produce a winner. In other words, he was running the team for years as a cash cow without caring at all if he won. This was intentional. I wouldn't characterize that type of person as a buffoon, but rather a self-centered egotistical jerk, which is why I wasn't into the team during that time period. Frankly I'm surprised that the team had any fans at the time. I stongly suspect that the main reason DTS began to change was that the league finally started to put pressure on him for not operating the team in good faith under the league agreement and that they were going to kick him out of the league if he didn't.

I am also not sure that I would equate litigiousness with being a creep, but I can understand your viewpoint.

As I said in my "why I am a clipper fan" post, I became a Clipper fan when I saw DTS start to care about winning. The trade for EB, and particularly the resigning of EB and Corey were big keys for me. Even the signing of MDSr was a positive step. The old DTS would never have done such things.

by Jax on Jan 26, 2008 2:07 PM PST up reply actions

Speculation

If MDSr's latest claim, that Roeser authorized him to lie to the public about talking to Sterling, turns out to be false, I wonder whether DTS would try to use that as a hook to fire MDSr for cause . . .

by Jax on Jan 25, 2008 1:06 PM PST reply actions

what about next year

if all goes well the clippers will by a young athletic team with livingston, brand thornton or maggette and kaman (plus a lottery pick collison?)being able to out-run most teams but instead you'll have dunleavy on the sidelines red faced shouting out some play to the pg walking the ball up the court. that is the bigger problem. dunleavy isn't going anywhere. dts just got used to the idea of paying top $ for coaches. he will never get used to the idea of paying top $ for coaches to sit at home or do guest spots on tnt.

by cabezadeknuckle on Jan 25, 2008 2:01 PM PST reply actions

DTS knows it too - it may be classified as

a form of torture

by Jax on Jan 25, 2008 2:12 PM PST up reply actions

Am I too late to join in?

Field trip with ClipperZoe today. fun stuff.

A couple thoughts, spread over the thread...

To zhiv's comment about his thinking aligning with Sterling's - I would not call Zhiv the average fan, but at the same time, I think it's at least axiomatic that 'average' fans prefer offense to defense. They see Maggette fearlessly attacking the rim - but they don't see the missed rotation, or the missed pass.

Ross is the total opposite. Everything that is easy to see, he looks awful - especially now. He has NEVER looked comfortable with the ball in his hands, although he at least hit a solid percentage of his open jumpers last season. I agree with John R 100% on this one. Sure, you could start Al Thornton in the second half - though neither he nor Maggette have played much 2 this season. But there are two ends of the basketball court, and it's no coincidence that Kevin Martin shoots 50%+ against the rest of the league and in the 30's against the Clippers. QRoss is not the be all end all of defenders - but he is Speed Racers worst nightmare. Same body, as quick or quicker, and works his ass off. (Plus, Martin's rep doesn't outstrip Q's the way Wade or TMac or Kobe do - so Q doesn't suffer quite so much in the lopsided officiating).

I don't want DTS making decisions for the team from the viewpoint of the average fan. I just don't.

This is actually a great subject for a full post. I'll stop rambling and work on something more comprehensive.

Last thought for the thread as a whole - the vast majority of owners are very hands off. Cuban is an obvious example. Buss has come and gone over the years. But the fact DTS has piped up lately is probably less in the mainstream than his lack of involvement before. Hire the right people, let them do the job. Obviously, if you're not happy, you have to do something about it - but that something is more wisely to hire someone else as opposed to try to impose your will. He's a real estate developer. Not a basketball coach.

by Steve Perrin on Jan 25, 2008 3:26 PM PST reply actions