Another lively topic seems to be the pace that the Clippers will play at next year, and how can they be most successful.  Lots of ways to go on this one.

Baron Davis is going to lead the team and set the pace.  He just finished a successful run playing for Don Nelson.  GSW played in a frenzy at times and jacked up 3s with reckless abandon.  Unless I'm wrong, they were similar in a lot of ways to the breakneck pace of D'Antoni's Phoenix teams, which are now a thing of the past apparently.  One big difference in the teams is that Phoenix had rebounders and shot-blockers in Stoudamire and Marion, while GSW had Ellis and SJackson (and JRichardson before that), with very little inside presence.  Davis thrived in this style, and GSW had some exciting wins over the last couple of years, but they were still a borderline playoff team both times, even with the unforgettable series against Dallas.

Some may say that one version of the Clips roster can play in this style.  Thornton, RDavis, and Gordon can all get out and run.  Tim Thomas and Steve Novak can get up and down and hit shots as big men, and Kaman or Camby are both relatively athletic for their size and can be excellent high volume rebounding anchors that GSW was lacking.

Clipper coach Mike Dunleavy, of course, seems to be very much the anti-D'Antoni or Nelson.  He likes to focus on defense, running through the offense, and cutting down on turnovers and ill-advised quick shots.  Davis has never really had the chance to play with a pair of quality big men like Kaman and Camby.   With Kaman's very solid low-post game, and the ability of BDavis, Thornton, RDavis, and Mobley to score within the offense, along with greatly improved 3 pt shooting to play inside-out, the Clips could be successful playing at a slower pace.

The result is probably going to be a hybrid.  When the opportunity is there to run and get up a good quick shot, coming off a block, steal, or rebound--and there should be a lot more of those--it's hard to imagine a player with BD's creativity and strength not taking advantage of it.  It seems like a major stretch to think that Dunleavy is suddenly going to pull out all the stops and try to beat teams with a barrage of offense.

But what do you think?  And if it does turn out to be a hybrid, what's the best way to set that up?   

I thought I would steal a few topics that seem interesting over on the ESPN board, just to give us something to talk about.

Minutes allocation is a bit of a crapshoot, and the general numbers don't make much sense, so you're always talking in rough terms.  Total minutes for the season is crucial and more significant than minutes per game, I think, but missing a few games or missing a lot can really change things around.  One example:  Kaman was at 37.2 mpg last year, but he missed 27 games.

Trying to figure out minutes allocation raises some interesting questions.  How durable will Kaman, Camby, and Davis be?  How many minutes will Mobley and Tim Thomas get--or, to put it differently, how significantly will there minutes be reduced?  Mobley vs. Gordon, and factoring in Ricky Davis, seems to be worthy of its own thread.  Will Al Thornton play the most minutes of all of the wing players, and will he pick up a few PF minutes as well?  Will Steve Novak play more than he did last year in Houston?  Will DeAndre Jordan play at all--it seems as if a number of people think he'll be out there a little bit, which seems surprising to me since he has to get past both Brian Skinner and Paul Davis.  What about JWill and JHart and the backup PG minutes?

It would help to have the minutes that guys played last year, but it's a bit of a hassle to look it up on a dozen different teams.  Here's a quick pass, just to start a discussion:

PG:  BD 35 mpg  JWill 8  JHart 5

SG:  CM 30  Gordon 15

SF:  AT 35  RDavis 19

PF:  MC 32  TT  12

C:   CK  35  Skinner 14

Germany vs. Angola, and Kaman is looking sharp.  Watching it on Nbcolympics.com.  Kaman is 8-10 in the first half, with 17 points.  Dirk has 17 as well, hitting 3s, and after a close first quarter the Germans have opened up a 20 point lead.  Angola looked to be capable of hitting shots and making plays, and they have scored a few buckets in the paint as well.  They seem somewhat undersized against the German 7 footers, but they have decent athleticism and bulk.  The things that are killing them are Kaman's dervish-like moves in the post, which they seem to be completely bewildering them, along with Dirk's marksmanship.  Kaman is doing a really nice job of going into his move as soon as he gets the ball, and the Angola defenders seem to be routinely going for the first fake.  Combine that with their lack of size, and Kaman is having a field day.  If only it were this easy in the NBA.  But Kaman is looking good and fun to watch as always.

Consider this a thread to share any observations and thoughts on Chris Kaman's Olympic dream.

Maybe somebody else can check this for me, but does anybody remember this much turnover on a roster in a single offseason?  Obviously FElton and Maggette were eating up a lot of money and recognition on the Clippers, for good reason, and you can throw Cassell in there and add Livingston as well.  They were all on the roster at the beginning of last year, although only 1 1/2 of them were able to play basketball, and now they're all gone.  Adios, amigos.

So who are these guys?  Who are the Clippers at this particular point in time, as far as we can tell?  This is just the start of a handy primer, notes and thoughts on where the roster stands after the recent late flurry, partly just to show that ClipsNation, even in the absence of our fearless leader, is still awake and paying attention.

Holdover Clips:  Kaman-Thornton-Mobley-Thomas

Chris Kaman is the only dyed-in-the-wool Clipper at this point.  We all know and love Kaman, and for better or worse, he's the new FElton.  In case you didn't know, he plays basketball for the German fatherland tomorrow against Angola.  And that's just how Kaman rolls.

Al Thornton is probably number two on the list, a fabulous gift who fell to the Clips in the 07 draft.  In all of the Kaman-BDavis-Camby discussion and the FElton hoopla, the changing of the guard from Maggette to Thornton hasn't been much of a topic.  If some of the dominoes had stayed standing (BDavis playing for GSW for 17 mil this year), Thornton could be backing up a resigned Maggette.  Instead, Thornton's chance to flourish as a starting NBA SF is a critical storyline for the Clippers. 

Cuttino Mobley, the first significant Clipper free agent, has been pulling yeoman duty for some time on the Clips.  Known in these parts as Dunleavy's security blanket, a healthy Mobley got off to an extremely fast start in 07, but he was quickly banged up and played at a substandard level for months with nagging injuries.  Since his backup was good for 5 points or less per game, Mobley just kept piling up empty minutes over the course of a lost season.  If the aging Mobley is healthy, he can be an effective veteran presence and play the best defense of any of the Clipper SGs.  If he's got a sore elbow and is banged up, the current Clippers should have enough alternative players that he can go on the shelf, rest and recover.  In some ways the best case scenario with Mobley is that Gordon is a solid, talented young pro, and his energy, strength, and productivity forces Mobley to a backup position sooner rather than later, but there's a fair amount of ground to cover before it makes sense for Mobley to come off the bench.  Mobley seemed to be a "genuine Clipper" when he was surrounded by all of the guys who have since departed, but what happens with him over the next couple of years will determine his ultimate impact on the franchise.

Tim Thomas put us all through the wringer last year, and would receive a landslide of votes for "guy that you really don't want to fill in for your injured PF for a full season."  But now we're reminded again that, at least theoretically, he has a legitimate function coming off the bench.  The additions of Skinner and Novak put pressure on Thomas to play well and contribute.  If rebounding and defense are necessary, Skinner will chew up some of Thomas' minutes.  If Thomas misses 70% of his now-reduced 3 pt shots, Novak is going to get time.  On top of that, the pressure of getting Thornton minutes last season when Maggette was one of the Clippers' first options caused AT to log substantial time at PF, and the addition of Ricky Davis might produce similar results.  Tim Thomas is hardly the face of franchise, although his funkiness has a nice old school Clipper futility to it.  Like Mobley, in some ways it's a question of whether he can contribute and fade out gracefully at the same time.

The New Starters:  BDavis/Camby

We've said a lot about these guys.  Baron is going to be fun.  It's going to be great to watch Camby playing alongside Kaman, making the Clips formidable defensively and on the glass.  At GSW BDavis never had an adequate big man, and now he has two.  If Mobley is holding a spot for Gordon, and Tim Thomas is now in his rightful spot as a backup, then Camby is the solid starter who has Jordan in deep reserve behind him.  Camby is good enough and a tight enough fit with the rest of a talented squad that he could quickly establish himself as a distinguished and beloved Clipper.  Baron is The One.  His time is now, and his challenge is no less than installing the first red jersey on the wall at Staples.

New Big:  Brian Skinner

Extra points as a former Clipper.  The debate is whether signing Skinner is a better idea than trying to bring along Josh Powell, Nick Fazekas, or Paul Davis.  As much as I like every one of those guys, none of them ever really blew up in a truly significant way.  After last year's catastrophe, you can't blame the Clips for going into the season erring on the side of experience and playing it safe.  I think we all would have been happier last year if a healthy Skinner had been on the team instead of Powell or one of the others, presenting a viable alternative to play beside Kaman instead of Thomas.  That's the insurance policy he represents at this point, and if he can take some minutes away from Thomas because of his defense and rebounding, great.  If Jordan steps up ahead of schedule and pushes Skinner aside to gain some minutes, even better.

New Wings:  Ricky Davis and Steve Novak

Davis is a critical addition to the Clips.  Novak not so much, but they badly needed shooters, and he's one of the best in the league.  If Thornton is the new Maggette, then Davis is the new Thornton, and he seems particularly well-qualified to come off the bench and score points.  He's easily good enough to be a starter in case someone gets hurt, and the old/young pairings of Thornton/Mobley with Davis/Gordon work well, and better than old/old and young/young.  Getting guys who can score on the roster to play with Baron Davis is critical.  Thornton is a good one, Davis could be just as good, and Gordon is a Club Optimism favorite, while a healthy Mobley will help out as well.  The Clippers and their roster present a great opportunity for RDavis.  On top of that, Dunleavy has done an extremely good job of welcoming and supporting the veterans that he has signed.  Cassell and Mobley seemed to be a selfish, volatile mix, and it turned out that there were never any concerns on the personality side.  Patterson was the slight exception, but he didn't produce.  If Davis can score and be effective on the court, he should get great treatment from Dunleavy and a smooth ride.  Performing better than Ruben Patterson doesn't set the bar very high.  Performing better than Mobley and more consistently than Thornton last year is a good challenge.

Ironically enough, Steve Novak now represents the single hope in the talented scrubs category, although Jordan qualifies, and Gordon has to be the focal point of the hope category.  But there are a whole lot of ghosts:  the Great Fazeke, Powell, Davis, Singleton, Dickau, Livingston--who am I forgetting?  QRoss is a significant ghost, and we'll never hear Milph reminding us that he scored 20ppg in college on the rare occasion that he hits a shot ever again.

New backup PGs:  JWill and JHart

One has to wonder what Jason Hart had to say yesterday when he heard that the Clips had signed Jason Williams.  Bit of a setback, after thinking that a guy who isn't able to play, Livingston, was going to take a roster spot.  But Hart should just be happy that made it out of Utah and still managed to stay in the NBA.  One of things that I haven't seen mentioned is that Hart is the Clippers defensive backup at PG.  We can be critical of JWill's lack of defense, but if defense is what's required, then Hart, who is significantly bigger than Brevin Knight, is the guy who's going to play.  The setup is not dissimilar to last season, when Cassell was backed up by Knight as the defense option and Dickau as the offense option.  Perhaps Hart, now the 3rd string PG, belongs in the Knight-Dickau-Brunson scrub category, but JWill is a full cut above that level.  The Clips seem committed to some fairly substantial retooling on the offensive side, and JWill is a guy who can make that go with a second unit of Davis and Gordon.  The fact that Dunleavy has confidence in Hart is also a good thing, and we'll see how the hierarchy gets played out.  But it's important that Baron Davis isn't overplayed through the regular season.  He shouldered too much of the burden when Jackson was out the first seven games and GSW lost six straight, and he was apparently out of gas towards the end of the season, when things got testy with Nelson.  That means that JWill needs to be effective and get things humming, keeping BDavis' minutes within reason. 

Rookies:  Gordon and Jordan (and Taylor)

We've talked a lot about Gordon, although the FElton follies and his quick exit from summer league slowed that down a fair amount.  The addition of Davis shouldn't affect him too much, since there was no real backup to Thornton, and he'll get plenty of run in preseason and we'll see where he stands.  It's interesting to remember that the Clips were in dire need of shooters when they drafted Gordon, after Thomas led them with 83 3s, and since then they've added BDavis (173 3s), RDavis (135 3s), JWill (97 3s), and Novak (34 in 71 attempts).  The addition of Novak actually bodes well for Jordan, because he is taking a slot that might have gone to a big man like Fazekas or Davis.  Jordan is the lone project on the Clips roster, which figures to make him a fan and zhiv favorite, and he should benefit from banging around the Kaman, Camby, and Skinner. 

According to the LA Times, the Clippers made a deal with Jason Williams (for the vet minimum, we assume) only after they were unable to come to terms with Shaun Livingston.  The exact sequence is unclear, but one assumes that discussions with Livingston began after Brevin Knight was traded for Jason Hart, which ate up a healthy nugget of the Clips' remaining capspace.  (I'm not the expert on these things.)  We can assume that Hart was meant to be the solid backup PG, with Mike Taylor available to fill the 3rd string spot, but the primary backup spot was there for Livingston, as well as some minutes at the two or three.  But in the Clippers snowballing (and completely unprecedented) free agent bonanza, some of the potential utility minutes must have disappeared, going to Ricky Davis and Eric Gordon.  Even so, it appears at this point that the Clips were willing to continue their investment in Livingston and were offering him a minimum contract, but he and the team were "unable to come to terms."

So this is a bit of headscratcher, and a muffled finish to what was once an extremely promising Clipper career.  Was it about money or opportunity for Livingston?  Things never went his way, and he's had some horrible breaks.  The team apparently held a spot for him and was willing to see if he could some day return and fulfill at least some of his potential.  But they were also in the process of putting the roster through a major overhaul, and building around an elite PG in Baron Davis.  When you add it all up, in the last six weeks the Clips have been able to add enough pieces so that it would be extremely difficult for him to find a slot.  He would have to be not just healthy, but better and more effective than he ever was in the stilted sequences when he was actually able to play.

No one knows what Livingston's game might be like if he is ever able to come back.  Like FElton, maybe he just needed to get away from the Clipper culture, leaving it to Kaman, Mobley, and the newcomers.

But if it was money, and he felt that the Clippers should have reserved some of the money that they spent on filling out in order to pay him more than the minimum, then it seems like bad faith.  We're as sympathetic as can be towards Liv and his horrible injuries and all of the work he has put in to come back, but he has already made millions of dollars for what is effectively a no-show, and it's hard to imagine an argument for why he deserves a bigger share than the minimum, to play for a team that holds his Bird rights and could reward his performance with a generous contract.

We know that Jason Williams can play.  He'll be a good enough backup who is a great ballhandler and he can hit shots.  His spectacular days are behind him, and he's now an experienced, journeyman PG who can hit some shots and move the ball around, a full cut above Brevin Knight and Dan Dickau.  With Davis, Camby, Kaman and Mobley all liable to get banged up here and there or worse, the Clips have made a concerted effort to fill out the roster with guys who have been starters and scorers and have shown that they can fill in if one of the rotation players goes down.   Maybe Dunleavy is just challenging Hollinger to come up with new reasons for criticizing the Clippers bench and overall roster.

Too bad about Livingston. 

Good to be back.  All quiet on the Clipper front, as expected, after an extremely busy July.  I've been lurking for a few days, and nothing seems to be going on.  There are still some things that should be classified as minor roster moves out there:  no movement after the slightly bizarre "mutual" withdrawl of the QO to Fazekas, no hard news on Livingston yet, and only 12 roster spots officially spoken for (unless I'm mistaken).  But imo this is all small change.

Shouldn't we be talking about Baron Davis?

I don't have all of the story lines by any means, so look at this as an invitation to create some.  BD is the big story, by far, of the Clippers tumultuous offseason.  We've covered it extensively, of course, but much of it was done in the shadow of the FElton debacle, and then trying to figure out how to plug the PF hole, which was deftly accomplished by the Camby deal.

So it just seems like we haven't taken the time to consider and appreciate the fact that Baron Davis is a Clipper, and that he'll be the leader of the team and the face of the franchise when the season starts and for some time to come.  This is a major acquisition, completely unprecedented in Clipper annals, and it seems to be an extremely tight fit for the Clippers' needs and roster. 

There are a couple of storylines that I keep thinking about and coming back to.  One is the idea, perhaps mentioned by Chad Ford but I've seen it elsewhere, that BD is an injury-plagued player and whatever his abilities might be at this point, in five years his contract will certainly be burdensome and overvalued.  My own response to this is that Mark Cuban made the same mistake with Steve Nash.  Nash was "old" and had a tricky back, and Cuban thought that his best years were clearly behind him.  That didn't turn out to be the case.  The Clips' deal with BD is hardly comparable to the recent Dallas deal for JKidd--and that deal actually represents how a player like Davis will probably have significant trade value as he nears the end of his contract.  But my own hope is that BD will, well, blow up and be the best thing that has ever happened to the Clippers, playing with the best supporting cast now and for the next five years, taking the opportunity to build the first true Clipper legacy.

PG is a cerebral position that combines skill with strength and athleticism.  The effectiveness of Sam Cassell a couple years ago is one example, but we've seen how Nash and John Stockton were able to play at the highest level towards the end of their careers.  Kidd is an example of a player whose game originally consisted of great athleticism, who has been able to remain effective even after significant injuries.  One of the important factors in this advanced equation is the makeup of a "true PG," as opposed to a combo guard or converted SG.  The position is about running a team and creating opportunities for the entire unit, and a big part of success derives from the mental aspect of controlling tempo and going into crunchtime with confidence.  The transformation of the Clippers under Cassell, from a team that routinely squandered 4th quarter leads and gave up road games much too easily, into a highly competitive and confident playoff squad, was a perfect example that we all know quite well.  Davis is better, younger, stronger, more versatile, and just as fearless and clutch, and we should expect even better results.

The other thing I keep coming back to is the way in which BD is a native son who has embraced the opportunity to become the face of the franchise and turn the Clippers into an elite team that can compete with the guys down the hallway.  The FElton debacle is unfortunate because it has taken away from anticipation of the excitement and special moment that will occur when BD walks onto the floor of Staples in a Clipper uniform.  I read somewhere that BD was the irreplaceable heart and soul of the extraordinary "we believe" GSW experience, and that effect will be compounded by him playing in his hometown and on a team with excellent big men, a strong defensive presence, and talented wing players young and old.  There were all sorts of conversations about "relevance" when BD first signed, which faded away after FElton bolted, but they still apply.  The Clips have an essential difference-maker as their leader now, they have a strong roster, and they will be highly competitive.  BD isn't just easy to market, he's a star.  The Clippers are going to matter. 

You all know that I could go on and on, and work myself up into a frenzy.  But what do you think?  What do you know and remember and like about BD and his effect on the Clips and their prospects?

Consider Club Optimism open for business, with Baron Davis standing at the door and welcoming you with the warmest of greetings.

Bit of a stunner and disappointment.  Details will come in, but this must have been the reaction to Mo Evans walking away from their offer.

Others can link up the details--I saw it over at the ESPN board, and it looks to be real--but in going for 75 words it looks like the Clips have to change gears now.  Could actually shift the focus back to Livingston.  But I was looking forward to Bukie.  Oh well.  Good for GSW and it seems like he had lots of fans there, who will enjoy watching him sit on the bench.

Just saw this recent comment from "Azubuikefan" on the CB "If we get Azubuike" thread.  Worth bumping and discussing:

Ah.. but what you don't realize.....

Azubuike opened last season as a starter and had a 33pt/ 8rb game against the clipps and followed a few games later with a 27pt 11rb game against dallas which is good… but he was playing injured the whole season and it just kept getting worse and worse because he never took 2 weeks off the let it heal.

Kelenna got a bone bruise in his ankle in summer league that had not healed by the start of the season. He was playing(and well) but was putting all his weight on his right leg because of his left ankle. He developed tendonitis in his right knee. The big dallas game was really the last time anyone saw a healthy Azubuike. He would have been fine if he sat out 2 weeks and let the right knee heal but he couldn’t for fear of falling out of crazy nellie’s rotation and Nellie wouldn’t sit him out because even though they were having to pump him full of liquid tylenol just to play, he was still better than both Barnes and Pietrus which were the alternatives. He averaged 8.5 pts / 4rbs in 20 minutes/game for 81 games while playing really injured… Imagine what he will do while healthy in 35 mins/game as a starter alongside Baron(who is probably the one who filled the clips in that Kelenna’s numbers were achived while playing injured all season).

Maybe we should cover Germany's games in the Olympics as a German easy reader, eh CS? 

Our favorite giant Kraut put together another nice game going 5-7 from the field for 10 pts and 9 rebounds in the first half, as the Germans put together a lead over the Arroyo-less (injured) Puerto Ricans.  In the 3rd quarter (with CK playing limited minutes--21 for the game), Deutchland hit a bunch of 3s and took control of the game, with Kaman getting 3 2nd half rebounds and no points.  The German pg had a nice game.

Nowitzki has never made it to the Olympics before.  As Kaman said, "I've been doing this for 12 days, he's been doing it for 12 years.  I can't imagine how he feels."  Klassic. 

Remind me again why we don't like kalling him Kaveman?  Is he more of an Enlightenment era kind of German:  silk pants, Goethe, Mozart?

Guess the next step is to figure out when the Olympics start. 

I haven't been following LRM on the Laker summer league team because, well, I'm not a Lakers fan.  I am, however, or at least I thought I was, a huge LRM fan, and unless I'm mistaken his situation just became vaguely more interesting.  With GSW signing Turiaf, the Lakers could use a big strong defensive-minded rebounder and shot-blocker, and LRM might be one of their prime candidates.  It helps that he would willingly play for the minimum.  I wonder if Farmar and even Ariza might make a case for him.  But it bears watching. 

LRM really made the ultimate sacrifice this year, and in some ways it was extra unfortunate because it didn't have to happen and the Bruins could have been stronger at the finish if he had had more playing time during the season.  I give BH all the credit in the world, but when Westbrook blew up in DC's absence and then teams were zoning the Bruins and BH essentially went to the 3 guard lineup and moved LRMM to the 4, LRM's playing time was drastically reduced.  BH never committed or tried very hard to play LRM and KL together, which would have been a good move all along because it would have put the ball in KL's hands on the perimeter, something else which took a really long time to get going.  Of course KL was a superlative college center, and it's hard to find fault with riding the best horse, but LRMM was a tough, well-trained, solid senior college center, and he ended up on the floor only when Love was resting.  Towards the end of the season as teams got more physical and tougher LRMM didn't have the mojo he might have had if he had gotten a lot more minutes, and the Bruins rotation didn't have the bigs to compete, defend, and rebound at times.  There were tough choices involved, with LRMM a tweener and relatively ineffective in his time at the 3, and JS was complicated as well.  In the end it was a great run, and LRM was a hero in every way, even though he didn't get to spend much time up on the stage.

So now he'll probably end up playing in Spain or somewhere else in Europe, and he's going to do great and benefit from the fact that it's an international game now.  But others who follow the Lakers more closely than I do might want to follow the situation, see if he's going to training camp and who else is going to be there competing against him for the spot.  I guess Bynum was just cleared to resume "basketball activities," although he won't be playing 5-on-5 at least until training camp.  So you have Bynum gingerly coming off the surgery, Gasol (great player but not tough enough), Chris Mihm (decent regular season back-up, not tough, oft-injured), Odom (not tough enough at PF, but good and fun, and at the SF with Bynum-Gasol-Odom-Kobe-Farmar, that's the big ticket), and that's it.  Mbenga I guess.  Worth watching.

Other Bruin-Laker thoughts include the idea that the team might have more juice with Farmar moving into the starting lineup this year.  Just a thought--curious about other opinions.  DFish still the key vet coming off the bench.  Getting Ariza back at reasonable money was a big step for the Lakers too--that's another mystery, how TA had 10 extraordinary minutes against Boston and then never played again.  He was the defender who could have slowed down Pierce and made hustle plays, I think, but he was just coming off the injury, and he wouldn't have stopped the massacre.  It would be a great story if the hardest-working Bruin of them all could pull a stunner and make the squad.